Giving it a try

Started by Talion, January 19, 2016, 06:32:07 AM

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Talion

I've been looking at tenses and tried to write simple sentences. Any corrections are appreciated.

1. Oe perawm tueto lu srunga'.
2. Nga polawm, fyape tsun oe srung?

1. I'm asking someone to be helpful.
2. You asked, how can I help?

Tìtstewan

#1
Good start! :D

Just a few minor things:
Quote from: Talion on January 19, 2016, 06:32:07 AM
1. Oe perawm tueto lu srunga'.
srunga' is not for people, so tuteo doesn't fit here.

For this sentence I would use vin - ask for, request
Oe perawm tuteor a (tsun / new) srung s(iv)i.
lit.: I am asking someone that (can / want to) help.

Alternatively, one could say:
Oe perawm tuteor a srunga'a kem si.
lit.: I am asking for someone that do an helpful action.


Quote from: Talion on January 19, 2016, 06:32:07 AM
2. Nga polawm, fyape tsun oe srung?
There is only missing sivi:
srung just mean help (noun) and here you need the verb srung si to help, and because tsun controls srung si, the si part gets the infix <iv> -> srung sivi.

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Talion

#2
Irayo
That helps a lot, I needed help with infix, and I didn't know there was another way to say ask. Request does sound better. So if I wanted to say I give thanks, I'd say oe irayo si, or oe tsun irayo sivi for I can give thanks.

Tìtstewan

Quote from: Talion on January 19, 2016, 07:52:44 AMSo if I wanted to say I give thanks, I'd say oe irayo si, or oe tsun irayo sivi.
I would go for Oe irayo si if you want to say "I give thanks"
With tsun it's also ok, but nobody really will say that if one want to thank someone.

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Kemaweyan

Quote from: Tìtstewan on January 19, 2016, 07:28:58 AM
For this sentence I would use vin - ask for, request
Oel verin tuteol a (tsun / new) srung s(iv)i.
lit.: I am asking for someone that (can / want to) help.

Alternatively, one could say:
Oel verin tuteol a srunga'a kem si.
lit.: I am asking for someone that do an helpful action.

Why tuteol? :o There is oel already :) There should be -t or maybe -r (to indicate a person whom you are requesting to) :-\

Also I think vin does not work in this way. Look at official examples:

  Vuyin ohel Uniltaronit.
  Pol volin mipa tskalepit.

So direct object of vin is a thing that you are requesting for. I think here you're requesting for help, so it would be just

  Oel verin srungit.

Another way to express this meaning is

  Atxäle si oe tsnì tuteo oeru srung sivi.

I think it would be more natural and polite request in this situation ;)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tìtstewan

Oh derp.. :o :-[ :-X
Fixed it by using pawm + dative. (that with l was a embarrassing typo)

----

I am agree what Kemaweyan wrote.

Quote from: Kemaweyan on January 19, 2016, 08:57:19 AM
Another way to express this meaning is

  Atxäle si oe tsnì tuteo oeru srung sivi.

I think it would be more natural and polite request in this situation ;)
This is very cool way (I forgot about it)! :D

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Kemaweyan

Quote from: Tìtstewan on January 19, 2016, 09:08:50 AM
Oh derp.. :o :-[ :-X
Fixed it by using pawm + dative. (that with l was a embarrassing typo)

In this case there should be oe, not oel :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tìtstewan

Omum oel... zeykolo tsat.

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Talion

Seeing no translation to the sentence, ätxäle si oe tsnì tuteo oeru srung sivi, I tried to translate it myself. What I understand it to say is, I request someone to help me.

Ätxäle si oe tsnì- (respectfully) I request
Tuteo-someone
Oeru srung sivi-to help me

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Talion on January 19, 2016, 09:55:17 AM
Seeing no translation to the sentence, ätxäle si oe tsnì tuteo oeru srung sivi, I tried to translate it myself. What I understand it to say is, I request someone to help me.

Ätxäle si oe tsnì- (respectfully) I request
Tuteo-someone
Oeru srung sivi-to help me

That's right! Sorry I forgot to add a translation :-[
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Talion

It's ok it was fun using it as a learning exercise  :)

Plumps

Quote from: Talion on January 19, 2016, 10:32:22 AM
It's ok it was fun using it as a learning exercise  :)

That's how you learn it of course and it's great that you take it as a challenge ;) although it is common practice in the beginners' section to give translations.

Nothing to add except a minor correction: ‹er› and ‹ol› are not tenses. They are called aspect. This is a bit hard to grasp. It's the difference between an ongoing action (‹er›) and a finished one (‹ol›) – they can appear in all other tenses (past ‹am›, ‹ìm›; and future ‹ìy›, ‹ay›). Actually, that's a good way to remember that because you can't mix tenses, but you can mix tense with aspect. ;)

Otherwise you're doing great!

Talion

Irayo ma Plumps

That's a good thing to remember, I've seen them mix but was unsure how they did. I find practicing something works better than reading about it and I have issues with learning from text.  :)

Talion

Giving something a little more complicated a try.

Oe tìlmtxen si trr'ongit anarlor, fìrewon.   :)

I hope it's close enough to understand.

Plumps

Quote from: Talion on January 19, 2016, 12:13:12 PM
Irayo ma Plumps

That's a good thing to remember, I've seen them mix but was unsure how they did. I find practicing something works better than reading about it and I have issues with learning from text.  :)

Nìprrte' – with pleasure ;)

It definitely is. For me as well. What I found difficult was – and still is – to grasp the concept. Often I'm still not sure when to usually use the common tense infixes and when aspect. Often times people use ‹ol› more than ‹am›, for instance.

Quote from: Talion on January 19, 2016, 01:25:06 PM
Giving something a little more complicated a try.

Oe tìlmtxen si trr'ongit anarlor, fìrewon.   :)

I hope it's close enough to understand.

It is, but remember that in si verbs all the infixes go in si, so: oe tìtxen sìlmi ...

The second bit is a bit tricky. If you use the dative (-ru) it would mean that you "woke the morning" ;) Not your intention, I guess :P
I'd go around it with the topic (-ri)

Trr'ongìri anarlor, oe tìtxen sìlmi fìrewon.

Talion

Oh ok, I didn't catch that in the reading about si verbs. I have to read over a few things a bit more on the datives. I'm just trying to apply and understand it a little bit.

Irayo  :)

Plumps

Quote from: Talion on January 19, 2016, 01:53:18 PM
Oh ok, I didn't catch that in the reading about si verbs. I have to read over a few things a bit more on the datives. I'm just trying to apply and understand it a little bit.

Irayo  :)

Sure. No problem to do it that way ;)

If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask :)