Author Topic: How do I say this properly?  (Read 1013 times)

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Offline GEOvanne

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How do I say this properly?
« on: November 28, 2011, 11:08:30 pm »
Oe-l ke omum tupe poe-l new futa yom tsa'u-t.
My reaction to my mother putting vegetables in my dinner.

After all this time I still can't get the technical terms, but the ending that shows who is doing the action, I'm not sure how it would work in this.

Because I'm the one doing the 'not knowing', but she is also doing the 'want you to it this'. I'm thinking it should be "Oe-r", but I'm not sure, and what about the other endings?

Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: How do I say this properly?
« Reply #1 on: November 28, 2011, 11:20:50 pm »
Oe-l ke omum tupe poe-l new futa yom tsa'u-t.

Actually I don't understand properly what do you mean but if you want to say "I don't know whom she wants make to eat this", I think it would be

  Oel ke omum teyngta poe new pesur yeykivom tsat.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: How do I say this properly?
« Reply #2 on: November 29, 2011, 07:59:51 am »
Ok, let's talk about transitive verbs like omum or yom from your sentence. Who performs action, is agent (subject) and takes agentive ending (-l, -ìl), while who receives action, is patient/(direct) object and takes patientive ending (-t, -ti, -it).
Oe-l omum tsa-t => I know that. Who knows? Oe-l. Who receives my knowing? tsa-t
Nga-l yom teylu-ti => You eat beatle larva. What eats? Nga-l. Who is being eaten? Teylu-ti
Clear enough?

-r, -ru, -ur ending is for dative, which is used for indirect objects, like in transitive verbs with <eyk> infix (rough meaning is "to cause" + verb). Here direct object doesn't changes, former subject changes into indirect object and sentence receives new subject, which causes the action. Example to understand my hard-to-understand explanation:
Base sentence: Oe-l yom teylu-ti => I eat teylu. I am agent, which causes the action on teylu, which receives it.
Now with <eyk>: Sa'nok-ìl yeykom teylu-ti oe-ru. => Mother causes me to eat teylu. Here mother is agent, which causes action. Teylu is still one who receives action (it is eaten), and I as that one who is caused to do something take dative ending. Still wanting to learn Na'vi?  :)

And about your sentence - maybe you wanted to say:
I don't know why I should eat that.
Oel ke omum futa pelun oel tsat yivom. Very literally: I don't know this thing which is why I should eat that (probably different construction should be used, but I don't want to confuse you too much)
« Last Edit: November 29, 2011, 03:50:16 pm by Blue Elf »
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tanri

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Re: How do I say this properly?
« Reply #3 on: November 29, 2011, 09:50:34 am »
Quote
Still wanting to learn Na'vi?
HRH :)

Very nice explanation, ma Blue Elf.
Usually there are more than one variant of a particular sentence. Can you, ma GEOvanne, write a exact English meaning of what do you want to say nìNa’vi?

My attempt (not a question, rather a complaint):
"I don't know who can (possibly/even) want me to eat that." - Ke smon oeru kea tute a tsun nivew (keng) futa oel yängom tsat.
(pronounced with exaggerated accent of ugliness on underlined words ;D)

Literally (more or less):
Ke smon oe-ru kea tute... - There is no person known to me...
...a tsun n<iv>ew (keng)... - who can want (even) ...
...futa oel y<äng>om tsa-t. - that I eat that (with infix of negative feeling in yom).
Tìvawmìri txopu rä’ä si. Nrr!

Offline GEOvanne

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Re: How do I say this properly?
« Reply #4 on: November 30, 2011, 04:20:31 am »
HRH, and here I was being all proud of my sentence.

Sorry about leaving out the english meaning. I wanted to say "I don't know who she wants/expects to eat that"

So let me try again: Oel ke omum futa poel new futa yeykom tsat tuperu?

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: How do I say this properly?
« Reply #5 on: November 30, 2011, 09:08:15 am »
HRH, and here I was being all proud of my sentence.

Sorry about leaving out the english meaning. I wanted to say "I don't know who she wants/expects to eat that"

So let me try again: Oel ke omum futa poel new futa yeykom tsat tuperu?
I think it should be:
Oel ke omum futa poel new yeykivom tsat tuperu
meaning is a little shifted: I don't know whom she want to make eat it (as new is modal verb, you must add <iv> into controlled verb). Maybe better is
Ke smon oeru tute a poel perey futa pol yom tsat
I don't know person which she expects that he/she eat that.
« Last Edit: November 30, 2011, 02:38:18 pm by Blue Elf »
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tanri

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Re: How do I say this properly?
« Reply #6 on: November 30, 2011, 01:03:14 pm »
HRH, and here I was being all proud of my sentence.
Sorry about leaving out the english meaning. I wanted to say "I don't know who she wants/expects to eat that"
So let me try again: Oel ke omum futa poel new futa yeykom tsat tuperu?
As I am looking at your English version, you are virtually asking for a person, not for a information/fact. So the Na’vi sentence should reflect that and speak about tute.
If I want to express the fact of knowing someone, it is unusual for Na’vi to use a verb omum, which is intended mainly for knowing facts of things. For knowing a person, there is a verb "smon" - "be known".
Thus, instead of "Oel ke omum futa...", I prefer "Ke smon oeru kea tute a..." where "a..." is followed by a description of that person.

Ke smon oeru kea tute a poru tsun poel new yeykivom tsat.
- Here I used generic "po-ru" and feminine "poe-l" to distinguish more clearly between those "po"s.
Tìvawmìri txopu rä’ä si. Nrr!

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: How do I say this properly?
« Reply #7 on: November 30, 2011, 02:39:36 pm »
Good catch, ma Tanri, much better than my construction. I updated it to look better.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline GEOvanne

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Re: How do I say this properly?
« Reply #8 on: December 01, 2011, 12:14:34 am »
 :o Ok so I've been able to keep up, but wow.

About 'new', shouldn't 'futa' follow it?

Offline Tanri

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Re: How do I say this properly?
« Reply #9 on: December 01, 2011, 04:04:05 am »
Yes, but only as a placeholder for the thing wanted:
Oel new futa ...., where .... is a sentence describing something I want.

When you want some action to happen (and actions are defined by verbs), you place the main verb (or "controlled" verb, with the subjunctive infix <iv>) after the new (which is called modal verb).
Oe new yivom tsat. - I want to eat that.

This pair of verbs is called a "modal construction", not requiring agentive case for subject (oe), but still using patientive for subject (tsat), if the controlled verb is transitive.

So, with "new" we have three possibilities:
Oel new fì’ut - I want this thing
Oel new futa ... - I want that .... (when you cannot use a single noun for something you want)
Oe new yivom tsat - I want to eat that (modal construction with two verbs).
Tìvawmìri txopu rä’ä si. Nrr!

Offline GEOvanne

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Re: How do I say this properly?
« Reply #10 on: December 01, 2011, 04:47:36 am »
Oh, wow, thanks. I've never read that before, and I think I know how to use the <iv> now.

 

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