How do you say "were/was"?

Started by Txantstew, December 05, 2010, 05:30:20 PM

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Txantstew

Call me stupid, but I've scaled the internet and my dictionary and can't find a thing.
How do you say were or was?
Thanks =]

wm.annis

Quote from: Txantstew on December 05, 2010, 05:30:20 PMCall me stupid, but I've scaled the internet and my dictionary and can't find a thing.
How do you say were or was?

How exactly are you using it?  Without more information, I'd say that was and were are the past tense of the verb to be, lu.  Na'vi has two pasts, a near past and a general past.  Like so many other changes to the Na'vi verb, these tense changes are marked with infixes — marking that goes inside the verb.  The near past is l‹ìm›u, the general l‹am›u (the brackets around the infixes are just there to make them clear, they aren't usually used in writing, lìmu, lamu).

Txantstew


Kemaweyan

Quote from: Txantstew on December 05, 2010, 05:30:20 PM
How do you say were or was?

But please note that you should not translate all the words. As wm.annis says, translate the meaning, not the words! For example, a simple english sentence: I was flying. If you translate the words, it would be Oe lamu tswerayon, but it's incorrect. The meaning of this sentence is "I was in the process of flying" and for this meaning ("I was in the process") we have other infix -arm- (from -am- and -er-). So this sentence in Na'vi will be Oe tswarmayon ;)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Kemaweyan on December 05, 2010, 05:52:28 PM
Quote from: Txantstew on December 05, 2010, 05:30:20 PM
How do you say were or was?

But please note that you should not translate all the words. As wm.annis says, translate the meaning, not the words! For example, a simple english sentence: I was flying. If you translate the words, it would be Oe lamu tswerayon, but it's incorrect. The meaning of this sentence is "I was in the process of flying" and for this meaning ("I was in the process") we have other infix -arm- (from -am- and -er-). So this sentence in Na'vi will be Oe tswarmayon ;)

If you were saying 'I was flying' in the context of something like 'As I was flying, I happened to look up and I see a leonopteryx', the above makes sense. But would this be the case if you were saying 'I was flying', and meant 'I had been flying', like in 'The other day, I was flying when it was very windy'? Wouldn't that be Oe tsw<alm>ayon, or simply Oe tswolayon?

The 'take home' message here, Txantstew, is that the verb lu is generally overused, and correct 'Na`vi' often does not translate to 'correct English'. This is a 'hangup' that trips me up frequently. But the sense of when to use lu comes with time.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on December 06, 2010, 03:42:53 PM
Quote from: Kemaweyan on December 05, 2010, 05:52:28 PM
Quote from: Txantstew on December 05, 2010, 05:30:20 PM
How do you say were or was?

But please note that you should not translate all the words. As wm.annis says, translate the meaning, not the words! For example, a simple english sentence: I was flying. If you translate the words, it would be Oe lamu tswerayon, but it's incorrect. The meaning of this sentence is "I was in the process of flying" and for this meaning ("I was in the process") we have other infix -arm- (from -am- and -er-). So this sentence in Na'vi will be Oe tswarmayon ;)

If you were saying 'I was flying' in the context of something like 'As I was flying, I happened to look up and I see a leonopteryx', the above makes sense. But would this be the case if you were saying 'I was flying', and meant 'I had been flying', like in 'The other day, I was flying when it was very windy'? Wouldn't that be Oe tsw<alm>ayon, or simply Oe tswolayon?

With the exception of maybe "I had been flying" you wouldn't use <ol> (or a variant thereof) as the subordinate clause you're introducing implies internal structure which would be semantically inconsistent with a perfective.
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`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: kewnya txamew'itan on December 06, 2010, 04:36:49 PM
Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on December 06, 2010, 03:42:53 PM

If you were saying 'I was flying' in the context of something like 'As I was flying, I happened to look up and I see a leonopteryx', the above makes sense. But would this be the case if you were saying 'I was flying', and meant 'I had been flying', like in 'The other day, I was flying when it was very windy'? Wouldn't that be Oe tsw<alm>ayon, or simply Oe tswolayon?

With the exception of maybe "I had been flying" you wouldn't use <ol> (or a variant thereof) as the subordinate clause you're introducing implies internal structure which would be semantically inconsistent with a perfective.

So in the case of the second example sentence, the use of <ol> isn't enough to say in effect 'I was flying, but now I am done'? It seems just a bit illogical to imply you have been flying your ikran for days. I bet they need periodic rest a lot more than that. So, prefacing 'the other day' and then use <ol> should be enough to clearly establish the perfective.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

omängum fra'uti

For "The other day, I was flying when it was very windy" I see no problem with ol for flying....

As a very rough translation (Ignoring the idiomatic "The other day"...)

Lamu hufwe atxan a krr, oe tswolayon
When there was much wind, I was flying

Here, flying is still a single event (Hence ol), that occurred when there was much wind.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Kì'eyawn

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on December 06, 2010, 09:51:50 PM
For "The other day, I was flying when it was very windy" I see no problem with ol for flying....

As a very rough translation (Ignoring the idiomatic "The other day"...)

Lamu hufwe atxan a krr, oe tswolayon
When there was much wind, I was flying

Here, flying is still a single event (Hence ol), that occurred when there was much wind.

Hmm...  I'm more inclined to do it this way:

Larmu hufwe atxan a krr, oe tswamayon, as in this case i feel the imperfective of the windiness is important, whereas the perfective/imperfective status of the flying is less so.  In fact, i might even drop the <am> out of there, since the previous verb establishes this as taking place in the past.
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kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on December 06, 2010, 09:51:50 PM
For "The other day, I was flying when it was very windy" I see no problem with ol for flying....

As a very rough translation (Ignoring the idiomatic "The other day"...)

Lamu hufwe atxan a krr, oe tswolayon
When there was much wind, I was flying

Here, flying is still a single event (Hence ol), that occurred when there was much wind.

Whilst it is the same event you're describing, I'd say that your sentence would be better translated into English as "it was windy when I flew". If the action something happened whilst I was verbing then there must be an internal structure to that event in order to allow the other event to take place "inside" it. That doesn't quite mean that you could never use a perfective with a krr a clause, but it does mean that it will normally make more sense unmarked or with <er>.
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
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