Is this right?

Started by Numeyu92, October 26, 2013, 11:10:59 PM

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Numeyu92

This is my first draft of what I have translated from genesis 1-8. I will be adding more and will always continue to add corrections as I am proofread and learn more na'vi.

1st attempt (please be gentle  :-\)

Mì sngä´ikrr Yawey ngopmop tawit ulte 'rrta.  Ulte 'rrta ke lu 'änsyem ulte mek. Ulte tìvawm sìn key te txukx. Ulte tirea te Yawey 'ärìp sìn key te pay. Ulte Yawey poltxe, tung atan: ulte atan pamähem. Yawey tse'a tsat atan sìltsan, ulte poan 'aku atan ftumfa tìvawm.Yawey syaw atan trr, ulte tìvawm poan syaw txon. Ulte tafral kaym, ulte rewon --'awve trr. Ulte Yawey poltxe, tung tsatseng lu mo mìkam pay ne 'aku pay ftu pa. Ha Yawey sleyku mo ulte 'aku pay äo mo ftu pay io tsa'u.  Ulte tsa'u slu ha. Yawey syaw mo taw. Ulte tafral kaym, ulte rewon --'muve trr

In beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  And Earth not be complete and empty; and darkness onto face of deep.  And spirit of God move onto face of water. And God spoke, allow light: and light arrived. God see light good, and he remove light from darkness. God call light day, and darkness he call night. And therefore evening, and morning – first day.  And God spoke, let there be space between water to remove water from water. So God make space and remove water under space from water above it. And  it become so. God call space sky.  And therefore evening, and morning – second day.

(I know this could have also been posted in Bible section, this is my first attempt at this and I wanted to see if I am going in the right direction)
Formerly known as Ni'awtu92. I ' am now known as Numeyu92 since it represents my personality.

Tìtstewan

#1
Well, I'm not really good at translating the bible, but I just looked at that.


Mì sngä'ikrr Yaweyl ngopmop ngamop tawit ulte 'rrtat. Ulte 'rrta ke lu 'änsyem ulte mek. Ulte tìvawm sìn key te txukx *tìtxukxä. Ulte tireal Yaweyä 'ärìp sìn keyt payä. Ulte Yawey poltxe, tung atan: ulte atan pamähem. Yaweyl tse'a tsatanit asìltsan, ulte poanìl 'aku atanit ftumfa tìvawm. Yawey syaw atanur trr, ulte tìvawmur poan syaw txon. Ulte tafral kaym, ulte rewon -- 'awvea trr. Ulte Yawey poltxe, tung tsatseng lu mo mìkam pay, ne 'aku payt ftu pay. Ha Yaweyl sleyku mot ulte 'aku payt äo mo ftu pay io tsa'u. Ulte tsa'u slu ha. Yawey syaw moru taw. Ulte tafral kaym, ulte rewon --'muvea trr.



I would wait for other member...may they have additional ideas.

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`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Txantsan nìwotx!

Although this is fine here, it is really more suitable for the intermediate forum, and of course, always has a home in the Bible forum. It will get noticed there!

I'll take a look tomorrow as well, if I get the time.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Numeyu92

really? but im a beginner  :-\
Formerly known as Ni'awtu92. I ' am now known as Numeyu92 since it represents my personality.

Numeyu92

isn't sì for lists and ulte is for conjunctions?
Formerly known as Ni'awtu92. I ' am now known as Numeyu92 since it represents my personality.

Tìtstewan

#5
Some examples:
Oel tse'a fìyayot ulte fìyayol tse'a oet.
I see this bird and this bird see me.

Ulte oel tse'a ngat.
And I see you.

Oel tse'a fìyayot fì'angtsìkit.
Oel tse'a fìyayot fì'angtsìkit.
I see this bird and this hammerhead.

Oel ngal tse'a fìyayot.
Oel ngal tse'a fìyayot.
I and you see this bird.

There is not only lists, here are the same "group/concept".

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Numeyu92

ok thankyou and what is the english translation changes with what you did? or is the english translation the same?
Formerly known as Ni'awtu92. I ' am now known as Numeyu92 since it represents my personality.

Blue Elf

Quote from: Numeyu92 on October 27, 2013, 12:41:46 PM
isn't sì for lists and ulte is for conjunctions?
in general, sì connects members of lists (usually nouns, but also alone verbs can be connected with sì), ulte connects sentences. As Tìtstewan said.

As for your translation - if you provide original in English, I can check your text in deep (sorry, I'm not familiar with Bible too much and not at all with English version). For now, just some notes:
- Ulte tìvawm sìn key te txukx -> te is used as part of names only (Neytiri te Tskaha Mo'at'ite). It is the only known usage
- Ulte tirea te Yawey 'ärìp sìn key te pay -> 'ärìp is transitive and here is used intrasitively. Better is to use intrasitive rikx.
- Ulte Yawey poltxe, tung atan: ulte atan pamähem. -> plltxe (if not used as transitive) is used with san / sìk in direct speech. Ulte Yawey poltxe san ..... sìk -> And god said: "...."
There's more things to correct (Tìtstewan showed it all almost correctly), but I feel some words were translated incorrectly. But I need to see original to be sure.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Numeyu92

the original is posted the text in read is the what I originally wrote and below it was the original english translation

also as I go along I find words that arent in the dictionary yet. My na'vi isn't that good , but I can compile a list of words that still need to be translated from english to na'vi for the dictionary

for example:

the
was
expanse
separate
Formerly known as Ni'awtu92. I ' am now known as Numeyu92 since it represents my personality.

Tìtstewan

Quote from: Numeyu92 on October 27, 2013, 01:09:07 PM
ok thankyou and what is the english translation changes with what you did? or is the english translation the same?
If you mean my ulte / examples, I fixed my typos and it sould be the same, I think.

Quote from: Blue Elf on October 27, 2013, 01:14:06 PM
There's more things to correct (Tìtstewan showed it all almost correctly), but I feel some words were translated incorrectly. But I need to see original to be sure.
I feel the same, but I'm not familiar with the Bible translation as well, especially the english version.

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Numeyu92

Numeyu92's translation

Mì sngä´ikrr Yawey ngopmop tawit ulte 'rrta.  Ulte 'rrta ke lu 'änsyem ulte mek. Ulte tìvawm sìn key te txukx. Ulte tirea te Yawey 'ärìp sìn key te pay. Ulte Yawey poltxe, tung atan: ulte atan pamähem. Yawey tse'a tsat atan sìltsan, ulte poan 'aku atan ftumfa tìvawm.Yawey syaw atan trr, ulte tìvawm poan syaw txon. Ulte tafral kaym, ulte rewon --'awve trr. Ulte Yawey poltxe, tung tsatseng lu mo mìkam pay ne 'aku pay ftu pa. Ha Yawey sleyku mo ulte 'aku pay äo mo ftu pay io tsa'u.  Ulte tsa'u slu ha. Yawey syaw mo taw. Ulte tafral kaym, ulte rewon --'muve trr

In beginning God created the heaven and the earth.  And Earth not be complete and empty; and darkness onto face of deep.  And spirit of God move onto face of water. And God spoke, allow light: and light arrived. God see light good, and he remove light from darkness. God call light day, and darkness he call night. And therefore evening, and morning – first day.  And God spoke, let there be space between water to remove water from water. So God make space and remove water under space from water above it. And  it become so. God call space sky.  And therefore evening, and morning – second day.

Tìtstewan translation

Mì sngä'ikrr Yaweyl ngopmop ngamop tawit ulte 'rrtat. Ulte 'rrta ke lu 'änsyem ulte mek. Ulte tìvawm sìn key te txukx *tìtxukxä. Ulte tireal Yaweyä 'ärìp sìn keyt payä. Ulte Yawey poltxe, tung atan: ulte atan pamähem. Yaweyl tse'a tsatanit asìltsan, ulte poanìl 'aku atanit ftumfa tìvawm. Yawey syaw atanur trr, ulte tìvawmur poan syaw txon. Ulte tafral kaym, ulte rewon -- 'awvea trr. Ulte Yawey poltxe, tung tsatseng lu mo mìkam pay, ne 'aku payt ftu pay. Ha Yaweyl sleyku mot ulte 'aku payt äo mo ftu pay io tsa'u. Ulte tsa'u slu ha. Yawey syaw moru taw. Ulte tafral kaym, ulte rewon --'muvea trr.

What is the english translation for Tìtstewan version?
Formerly known as Ni'awtu92. I ' am now known as Numeyu92 since it represents my personality.

Tìtstewan


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Numeyu92

Formerly known as Ni'awtu92. I ' am now known as Numeyu92 since it represents my personality.

Tìtstewan

#13
Sorry, I didn't saw this post:
Quote from: Numeyu92 on October 27, 2013, 01:17:08 PM
for example:

the
was
expanse
separate
Na'vi hasn't article...
was should be lolu (l<ol>u)
And for the last both words are missing in Na'vi.

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Blue Elf

Oh, seems I overlooked it (well, next month I have meeting with eye doctor :))
So, let's give a look a the text:

In beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Mì sngä'ikrr Yaweyìl ngolop tawit sì 'Rrtat.
I prefer <ol> instead <am> to show it is finished action (am gives emphasis on fact it occurred in the past). Ngop is transitive, so you must add case endings to subject and objects.

And Earth not be complete and empty; and darkness onto face of deep.
Ulte 'Rrta ke lu 'änsyem sì mek; ulte tìvawm sìn key *tìtxukxä
I'm really not sure if translation is ok - original sounds interesting as there is missing verb in second part. Also we are missing word deep as noun (txukx is adjective).

And spirit of God move onto face of water.
Ulte tirea Yaweyä rikx sìn key payä

And God spoke, allow light: and light arrived.
Ulte poltxe Yawey san livu atan sìk ulte atan polate/zola'u/polähem
Here I used "may there's light", although this way we say it in Czech instead of "allow light". Last word can be IMO any of that three; pate and pähem are probably synonyms, za'u is come. All fits well.

God see light good, and he remove light from darkness.
Yaweyìl tse'a tsatanit asìltsan ulte 'aku atanit ftumfa tìvawm.
Mayba also ta is possible on place of ftumfa.

God call light day, and darkness he call night.
Yawey syaw atanur trr ulte tìvawmur syaw txon.
If understand original correctly: Good named light as day, and dark named as night

And therefore evening, and morning – first day.
Ulte tafral kaym sì rewon ngolop 'awvea trr.
There's no verb in original, so I translated is as And therefore evening and morning created first day.

And God spoke, let there be space between water to remove water from water.
Ulte poltxe Yawey san livu tsenge mìkam pay fte 'aku payti ftu payti.
And God said: "may there's place between water in order to remove water from water". This is literal translation and probably not correct, as statement has some hidden meaning; also "remove" has here probably meaning of "separate", but such word doesn't exist in Na'vi

So God make space and remove water under space from water above it.
Ha Yaweyìl ngolop tsengit ulte 'aku payti a äo tsenge ftu pay a io tsat.
I use "tsenge" as space, mo doesn't seems good (mo describes some enclosed, but open area, like room without ceiling). Also this translation is quite literal.

And  it become so. God call space sky.
Ulte frakem slu fìfya. Yawey syaw tsengur taw.
And everything (every action) become this way. God named  place as sky.

And therefore evening, and morning – second day.
Ulte tafral kaym sì rewon ngolop muvea trr

This translation is not perfect, it hard to translate biblic texts. We are missing words, original uses "old fashioned" style (missing verbs, special forms of pronouns etc), so it' hard to get correct meaning.
You may be interested in this text: The Book of Ruth. It's good example what problems of translation you can meet. Also here on forum is available bible translation project.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tìtstewan

You shown nice examples, how difficult it is to translate the bible text. Some sentences are "different" translated in other languages.
Just this example:
EN: And God spoke, allow light: and light arrived.
DE: Und Gott sprach: Es werde Licht! und es ward Licht.
Lit: And God spoke: It will be light! and it was light!


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archaic

Genesis 1:3
    And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

Corinthians 4:6
    For God, who said, "Let light shine out of darkness,"
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The Dragon Affair my last fanfic, non Avatar related.

Plumps

I don't want to get involved in an interpretation of religious texts... So here're my only 2¢

Quote from: Tìtstewan on October 27, 2013, 01:37:52 PM
Sorry, I didn't saw this post:
Quote from: Numeyu92 on October 27, 2013, 01:17:08 PM
for example:

the
was
expanse
separate
Na'vi hasn't article...
was should be lolu (l<ol>u)
And for the last both words are missing in Na'vi.

For "was" ... or lu, lamu, larmu, lalmu ... depending on the context. ;)
"expanse" could be txayo or *tìhoet (although that should be varified by Frommer)
"separate" as a verb or adjective ??? As a verb, it could be pxìmun'i "divide", yak seyki "cause (something) to go astray", kxeykakx "cause to break". As an adjective it could be keteng "different", or (a)pxìmawnun'i(a) as "a divided + noun"

Tìtstewan

Quote from: Plumps on October 27, 2013, 04:57:11 PM
For "was" ... or lu, lamu, larmu, lalmu ... depending on the context. ;)
This! :D

Quote from: Plumps on October 27, 2013, 04:57:11 PM
"expanse" could be txayo or *tìhoet (although that should be varified by Frommer)
I thought about this word... Somehow the meaning of the original text means (as far as I've understood it) it as a space or room.

Quote from: Plumps on October 27, 2013, 04:57:11 PM
"separate" as a verb or adjective ??? As a verb, it could be pxìmun'i "divide", yak seyki "cause (something) to go astray", kxeykakx "cause to break".
As an adjective it could be keteng "different", or (a)pxìmawnun'i(a) as "a divided + noun"
Also I was thinking about this word to use, but it sounds weird in my brain...

It was mentioned, translation of the bible is difficult...

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Plumps

Quote from: Tìtstewan on October 27, 2013, 05:14:26 PMIt was mentioned, translation of the bible is difficult...

It is ;) That's why I don't venture into it ;)
But these words seem to be at least a way to transfer a certain meaning as quasi-synonyms as long as there are no direct cognates in the language.