Learn Na'vi Twitter post translation?

Started by Mrrvomun, April 02, 2010, 12:10:28 PM

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Mrrvomun

Alright, so I've been trying to translate the most recent Learn Na'vi Twitter post that was in Na'vi.  I'm being tripped up by a few words, although I think I have some of it down:

Mì fìtsenge txana keyey lu. Pefrakrr. Fì'u hiyìka spxam nì'aw lu, ko?
in this.place much-ATTR _1 be.  _2.  this.thing funny mushroom3 only be, _4?
There is much insanity in this place.  _.  This _ is only funny, right?

(sorry about the messiness of the tri-linear gloss, it's the first I've ever done)

1 I'm thinking this word has some link to keye'ung, but I'm probably wrong.
2 I haven't a clue.
3 Is this right?  It doesn't seem to make any sense.
4 Is this like saying 'no?' or 'right?' in English?  Like, "You are coming with me, right?"

If someone could fix those four things and give me a full translation, I'd very much appreciate it.

Two other (unrelated) questions:  Is the vocabulary tab on the main website updated as often as Taronyu's dictionary?  And has anyone checked the accuracy of the Android app 'aNaviDict'?
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Hawnuyu atxen

Well, there's no dictionary neer to me (not my pc...), but i think that this "keyey" is "kxeyey", what means "mistake".
Pefrakrr... frakrr means "all-time" (or always), but the "-pe-" always marks questions...

"ko" is something like "let's" ("Makto ko!" (Tsu'tey said it in the film) for example means "Let's fly!")

I'll leave the others for those, who has a dictionary right now :D
"Hrrap rä'ä si olo'ur smuktuä." ; "Ke'u ke lu ngay. Frakemit tung." (Assassin's Creed)

Nikre tsa'usìn!

NeotrekkerZ

kxeyey=mistake; keyey=mistakes

As for ko, it usually means "let's," but I think your interpretation of the sentence is correct there.  Actually for "right?" or "isn't it?" you would want kefyak for future reference.

I have no idea what pefrakrr would mean.  Especially since pe is a question forming particle and that one word sentence has no question mark.

Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya'ot a oe tswayon!

Mrrvomun

Ok, so that helps.  The first sentence then would be There are many mistakes in this place.

And the last sentence:  May this thing be a funny mushroom? I tried to translate that more according to the hortatory/jussive usage I know about from Latin, please correct me if I'm wrong, or if you have a better translation  ;D

Irayo for the lenition reminder, by the way:  that's something I should be adding to my notes  :D

As I expected, this must be a comment on April Fools.  I wonder of the usage of pefrakrr is an april fools joke itself...?  Heh, unlikely, I think, just an errant thought.

Irayo again for all the help so far!
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omängum fra'uti

Yeah pefrakrr I'm not sure on either, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense.  "What always"?

But the reason I'm replying is that I disagree that "ko" can usually be translated as "lets".  That can be a way to look at it in uses on an imperative like "makto ko", but it isn't really how it translates.  I tend to think of it like the canadian "eh", or perhaps the japanese "no da".  "Makto ko" - ride, eh?  "Kivä ko" go, eh?

I think the main example we have of use outside of imperatives is "Tsun tutet tspivang ko" which is translated by Frommer as "They can kill a person, you know."  (Though probably the more colloquial "ya know" would be more accurate.)
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Mrrvomun

Ok, so let me get this straight:  you are saying that when the main verb is in the imperative ('dictionary' form), ko means 'you know?'  So I assume it means "let's" when the main verb is in the subjunctive? 

The way I've been translating the sentence, that translation of ko doesn't make the sentence make any more sense (the way I see it, anyway).  Could someone post their translation of at least that last sentence?

Irayo!
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omängum fra'uti

Well, ko doesn't really mean "you know" or "lets" at all, that's just how you can take it in certain contexts.  In the context of an imperative (Which can be with or without the subjunctive...  For example "makto ko" is an imperative w/o and "kivä ko" is an imperative with) you can take it something like "Lets X".  I think "pefrakrr" is trying to be "whatever".  (A very bad trying, but trying nonetheless.)

So the whole thing would be "There are much mistakes in here.  Whatever.  This is only a strange mushroom, you know."  Not sure what it means though.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

NeotrekkerZ

Omängum's right about ko.  I hardly ever use it except for commands.  Thanks for correcting me. 
Rìk oe lu hufwemì, nìn fya'ot a oe tswayon!

Mrrvomun

Ah, I see.  Thanks for all the help.

Just one last thing: linguistically speaking, what is ko?  (Feel free to use any terminology you need to; I'm a decent researcher.)
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omängum fra'uti

It's a particle.  Which is a linguistic term for "Something which doesn't fit into one of our neat linguistic categories."

These are Frommer's words on it...
Quote from: Paul FrommerAs for ko, I don't know any Japanese but I did have in mind Mandarin ba, a sentence-final particle glossed by Li and Thompson as "solicit agreement."

Typical translations of ba are: "Don't you think so?" "Wouldn't you agree?" "Let's . . ." "Why don't you . . ." "I'll do X, OK?" I've used ko for all such things, maybe a bit more widely than ba.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Mrrvomun

Oh, great, and here I am trying to classify it... ;D

Again, irayo for all of your very prompt help, ulte Eywa ngahu!

Mrrvomun
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