Author Topic: Lord's prayer  (Read 694 times)

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Offline Ikrantu

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Lord's prayer
« on: February 21, 2016, 02:41:25 pm »
Well since the old topic has been locked i placed what i consiedered a correction here. Anybody see other corrections to be made?

Our Father who is in the heavens
Ma Sempul ayoeyä a tok sawtì
Sacred be your name
Ngeyä tstxo swok livu
May your world come
Ziva'u kifkey Ngeyä
May your desires be done
Livu hasey sìnew Ngeyä
In this world, as (this thing is) in the heavens
Fìkifkeymì, na fì'u sawmì lu
(May You) give us today our daily meal ("dinner")
Tivìng ayoeru wutsot letrr fìtrr
And may there be forgiveness for us regarding our mistakes
Ulte livu ayoeru txoa keyeyri
As forgiveness be towards those people that to us cause mistakes
Na txoa lu ne tsafo fwa ayoeru leyku kxeyey
And do not guide us away from the path
Ulte fya'oftu ayoeti ke fyawivìntxu neto
But release us from evil
Slä ayoeti livonu tìkawng
For (because) the world, the power, and the honor (all) are Yours
Taluna lu kifkey sì tìtxur sì meuia Ngaru nìwotx
Now and for all time
Set frakrrsì
Amen
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 05:03:30 pm by ehesh »

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2016, 03:20:53 pm »
Ok well. I see what you did there.
Ngenga, ngengaru and ngengeyä can remain. It's only the ceremonious form of nga.

Quote
Ma Sempul ayoeyä a tok sawmì
It would be [...] a tok sawti, because tok is a transitive verb meaning 'to be at'.

Offline Toliman

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2016, 04:45:25 pm »
Hmm ... in Na'vi it sounds interesting

Offline Ikrantu

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2016, 08:35:34 pm »
Ok well. I see what you did there.
Ngenga, ngengaru and ngengeyä can remain. It's only the ceremonious form of nga.

Quote
Ma Sempul ayoeyä a tok sawmì
It would be [...] a tok sawti, because tok is a transitive verb meaning 'to be at'.

Anything else, Master?

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2016, 08:39:32 pm »
It seems to be mostly the original version and it's good (although the topical words (ending with -ri) might not be well placed; not sure).
I only have small doubt about ''Slä ayoeti livonu tìkawngur''. I'm not sure if tìkawngftu would be better.

Any opinion from someone else?

Edit: Oh, I think there is some redundancy in two sentences
Quote
Tivìng ayoeru ayoeyä wutsot letrr fìtrr

Ulte livu ayoeru txoa ayoeyä keyeyri
I'd remove ayoeyä.

In the end, the job is well done.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2016, 08:46:16 pm by Vawmataw »

Offline Ikrantu

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2016, 09:00:46 pm »
It seems to be mostly the original version and it's good (although the topical words (ending with -ri) might not be well placed; not sure).
I only have small doubt about ''Slä ayoeti livonu tìkawngur''. I'm not sure if tìkawngftu would be better.

Any opinion from someone else?

Edit: Oh, I think there is some redundancy in two sentences
Quote
Tivìng ayoeru ayoeyä wutsot letrr fìtrr

Ulte livu ayoeru txoa ayoeyä keyeyri
I'd remove ayoeyä.

In the end, the job is well done.

Redundancy fixed,

Question: isn't word order irrelevant? why is the ending in ri a possible issue? (sorry for being such a noob)

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2016, 10:33:44 pm »
Question: isn't word order irrelevant? why is the ending in ri a possible issue? (sorry for being such a noob)
As for word order, not really.
http://wiki.learnnavi.org/Word_Order_Restrictions

Because -ri topical case must come at the beginning of the clause. Of course, there are exceptions.

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2016, 12:59:33 am »
Txantsan nìwotx! It's good to see this translation project 'resurrected'.

You could render

Ulte livu ayoeru txoa keyeyri
"Forgive us our trespasses"

as

Keyeyri,  livu ayoeru txoa

and

"As we forgive those who trespass against us"
Taweyka ayoeta lu txoa tuteru a kxeyey si ayoeri

Na txoa lu ne tsafo fwa ayoeru leyku kxeyey
As forgiveness be towards those people that to us cause mistakes

I bet others can improve on this. But it eliminates the troublesome topical.

Keep in mind that the Greek language this prayer was originally rendered in has free word order as well (Matt 6:9-14). It reads very differently in literal Greek.


Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Offline Plumps

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2016, 10:46:39 am »
I only have small doubt about ''Slä ayoeti livonu tìkawngur''. I'm not sure if tìkawngftu would be better.

Any opinion from someone else?

Indeed that is the opposite meaning of what is intended. ;)

The R-ending with lonu is possible but it means “release/reveal s.t. to s.o.” (find it here) as in:
     Nìsngä’i fmawnit fo narmew wivan, slä nì’i’a frapor lolonu.
     “They originally wanted to hide the news, but in the end they revealed it everyone.”

So ftu or ta would be better here. I am for ta since tìkawng is not a tangible object or place.

Offline Ikrantu

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2016, 03:38:33 pm »
I only have small doubt about ''Slä ayoeti livonu tìkawngur''. I'm not sure if tìkawngftu would be better.

Any opinion from someone else?

Indeed that is the opposite meaning of what is intended. ;)

The R-ending with lonu is possible but it means “release/reveal s.t. to s.o.” (find it here) as in:
     Nìsngä’i fmawnit fo narmew wivan, slä nì’i’a frapor lolonu.
     “They originally wanted to hide the news, but in the end they revealed it everyone.”

So ftu or ta would be better here. I am for ta since tìkawng is not a tangible object or place.


so how do i modify " Slä ayoeti livonu tìkawngur"

Offline Ikrantu

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2016, 03:45:22 pm »
Txantsan nìwotx! It's good to see this translation project 'resurrected'.

You could render

Ulte livu ayoeru txoa keyeyri
"Forgive us our trespasses"

as

Keyeyri,  livu ayoeru txoa

and

"As we forgive those who trespass against us"
Taweyka ayoeta lu txoa tuteru a kxeyey si ayoeri

Na txoa lu ne tsafo fwa ayoeru leyku kxeyey
As forgiveness be towards those people that to us cause mistakes

I bet others can improve on this. But it eliminates the troublesome topical.

Keep in mind that the Greek language this prayer was originally rendered in has free word order as well (Matt 6:9-14). It reads very differently in literal Greek.


Is that better?

Offline Plumps

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2016, 04:54:22 pm »
so how do i modify " Slä ayoeti livonu tìkawngur"

I’d say simply slä ayoeti livonu ta tìkawng

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2016, 05:06:05 pm »
Quote
Na (tengfya?) txoa lu ne tsafo a ayoeru leyku kxeyeyt
As forgiveness be towards those people that to us cause mistakes
Languages are complex sometimes (concerning the wording)... :(

Could zoplo si work?
French version is ''pardonne-nous nos offenses comme nous aussi nous pardonnons à ceux qui nous sont offensés''.
Forgive our offenses as we forgive the people who offended us.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2016, 05:12:42 pm by Vawmataw »

Offline Toliman

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2016, 05:09:16 pm »
Quote
Na txoa lu ne tsafo fwa ayoeru leyku kxeyey
As forgiveness be towards those people that to us cause mistakes
Languages are complex sometimes...
Yeah, true  ::)

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2016, 05:10:24 pm »
Beware the edits ;)
Quote
Na (tengfya?) txoa lu ne tsafo a ayoeru leyku kxeyeyt
As forgiveness be towards those people that to us cause mistakes
Languages are complex sometimes (concerning the wording)... :(

Could zoplo si work?
French version is ''pardonne-nous nos offenses comme nous aussi nous pardonnons à ceux qui nous sont offensés''.
Forgive our offenses as we forgive the people who offended us.

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #15 on: February 26, 2016, 01:58:33 pm »
I would make some small changes for better correctness and look (as some parts look like too literal or word-by-word translation):

Our Father who is in the heavens
Ma Sempul ayoeyä a tok sawti (correct case ending is -ti, not -tì)
Sacred be your name
livu swok tstxo ngeyä
May your world come
Ziva'u kifkey ngeyä
May your desires be done
Livu hasey sìnew ngeyä
In this world, as (this thing is) in the heavens
Fìkifkeymì, nìtengfya mì saw (in this world same as in heaven(s))
(May You) give us today our daily meal ("dinner")
Tivìng ayoeru wutsot letrr fìtrr
And may there be forgiveness for us regarding our mistakes
Ulte keyeyri livu ayoeru txoa (what not simply move topical where it goes - there's no reason to keep original world order exactly)
As forgiveness be towards those people that to us cause mistakes
Nìtengfya livu txoa tsaforu a kxeyey seyki ayoet (same as be forgiveness to those who cause us to make mistakes)
And do not guide us away from the path
Ulte fya'oftu ayoeti rä'ä fyawivìntxu neto (ke is negation, but for commands we use rä'ä)
or Ulte yak rä'ä seyki ayoet (and do not cause us to go astray)
But release us from evil
Slä ayoeti zong wä sìkawng (but defend us against evil)
For (because) the world, the power, and the honor (all) are Yours
Taluna kifkey sì tìtxur sì meuia lu ngeyä (nìwotx)
Now and for all time
Set sì tì'i'avay krrä (now and until the end of time/all)
Amen
Lu hasey (it's finished)
« Last Edit: February 27, 2016, 02:37:39 pm by Blue Elf »
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #16 on: February 26, 2016, 02:17:15 pm »
Quote
(same as be forgiveness to those who cause us to make mistakes)
I'm not sure to get it.
We forgive the people who offended us. I highly doubt we blame someone else for what we have done.

Therefore:
Nìtengfya livu txoa tsaforu a kxeyey si ayoer

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #17 on: February 26, 2016, 03:25:43 pm »
Quote
(same as be forgiveness to those who cause us to make mistakes)
I'm not sure to get it.
We forgive the people who offended us. I highly doubt we blame someone else for what we have done.

Therefore:
Nìtengfya livu txoa tsaforu a kxeyey si ayoer
Well, biblical texts are hard to understand well. in that case:
Nìtengfya livu txoa tsaforu a zoplo si ayoer (same as be forgiveness to those who offend us)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Plumps

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #18 on: February 26, 2016, 04:54:45 pm »
I highly doubt we blame someone else for what we have done.

\begincynicsmmode
    You sure about that?  ???
     It happens all the time… ;)

\endcynicsmmode

or Ulte rä'ä yak seyki ayoet (and do not cause us to go astray)

Very good translation, ma B.E.
Only comment I have is yak rä’ä seyki ;)

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Lord's prayer
« Reply #19 on: February 27, 2016, 02:39:11 pm »

or Ulte rä'ä yak seyki ayoet (and do not cause us to go astray)

Very good translation, ma B.E.
Only comment I have is yak rä’ä seyki ;)
Damn!  >:( Doing something in the night is not good idea.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


 

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