Author Topic: ma/ma oeyä?  (Read 2506 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
  • Karma: 11
ma/ma oeyä?
« on: February 21, 2011, 02:16:01 pm »
which is 'my'? because, in the film, Neytiri says 'ma oeyä tsmukan' (my brother) to the viperwolves she killed; but, for instance, when Eytukan is dying, he says 'ma 'ite' and the subtitles say 'my daughter'. :-\
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Sireayä mokri

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 6012
  • Karma: 35
  • Veritas vos liberabit
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2011, 02:19:07 pm »
My is oeyä. Ma is vocative marker, use should use it when addressing someone directly.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Carborundum

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1021
  • Karma: 24
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2011, 02:20:47 pm »
It should be noted that my is sometimes used as a vocative marker in English, so translating ma X as my X is not necessarily incorrect.


On a more serious note, ma 'ite --> my daughter is entirely correct. This is a good example of the vocative function of my.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2011, 02:23:47 pm by Carborundum »
We learn from our mistakes only if we are made aware of them.
If I make a mistake, please bring it to my attention for karma.

Offline Eanikran

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1303
  • Karma: 58
  • formerly Na'rìnga Taronyu
    • facebook
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2011, 02:25:00 pm »
It should be noted that my is sometimes used as a vocative marker in English, so translating ma X as my X is not necessarily incorrect.

THIS PIECE IS WHAT ALL TRUE WARRIORS STRIVE FOR.

anyway, yeah, ma doesn't directly mean 'my' like oeyä does. I remember the mass of confusion when the forum just started after Avatar came out with everybody thinking Ney said 'my jake' at the end ;D


Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
  • Karma: 11
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2011, 02:28:11 pm »
ah, irayo! so I guess Zoe Saldana made that mistake? :P

ma Eanikran; I remember when I thought that too, and then figured it out that she was saying Jake but with her language the first time I watched the movie after learning 'ma'.
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Amaya

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 887
  • Karma: 20
  • Growing up in the woods
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2011, 04:53:51 pm »
No, "Ma oeyä tsmukan" isn't a mistake, it's just a little more...formal, I guess you could say.  more like "oh my brother" rather than "oh brother"

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
  • Karma: 11
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2011, 08:33:20 pm »
ma Amaya, are you sure about that? it would make sense, but :-\
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Amaya

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 887
  • Karma: 20
  • Growing up in the woods
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2011, 08:36:40 pm »
Pretty sure I'm sure *nod*

Honestly, the tendency on the forums to assume everything the actors say is wrong is a bit...disturbing.  Yes the language has grown, but that doesn't mean that with all the language coaches and personal attention from our good karyu they didn't do very well.

Sorry, that was confusing, a lot of negatives, basically what I'm trying to say is there's no reason to take the default position that everything the actors said must be wrong before confirming whether it's right (unless we're talking about sam/jake's pronounciation XD ).  Seriously!  What ever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty" anymore?

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
  • Karma: 11
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2011, 09:05:54 pm »
I never said I believed that the actors said their Na'vi lines right. I even noticed myself some of the mistakes. rutxe, don't put words in my mouth, ma Amaya. I was just wondering if they would have a word for 'oh' and, if not, if that was a mistake by Zoe, and if not either of those, what it would mean to have ma oeyä together, since 'ma' technically does not mean anything. except maybe 'sir/ma'm'.
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Amaya

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 887
  • Karma: 20
  • Growing up in the woods
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2011, 09:35:25 pm »
ah, no I know there are mistakes, sorry, just reacting to how some other people are around here.  Do you mean is there something for like "Oh!  I didn't see you there!"?  That kind of "oh"?

The "o" I was talking about was the kindof old-fashioned "o" like "o god our help in ages past"

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
  • Karma: 11
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2011, 10:04:02 pm »
well, either or, really. though, of you were speaking of o instead of oh, you should have typed that in your original post :P would have been easier for me to understand. but, therein also begs the question if the Na'vi would use a term like o or oh.
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Ekirä

  • Olo'eyktan
  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 1795
  • Karma: 57
    • My DeviantART
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2011, 10:13:29 pm »
Ma is a necessary marker that's used in Na'vi when addressing someone--so whether you add oeyä (my) in there or not, you still have to use ma. It's not a polite form of addressing someone, it's always necessary. I do think it can be confusing how much it sounds like my, but no matter what, if you're addressing someone in Na'vi you have to put ma in front. I'm not sure if this was what you were asking, but I figured I'd try to spell it out a bit more.

And instead of thinking of it as a form of the old English O, I like to think of it as @ like when you're talking to someone on Twitter (I believe Muzer came up with that one?). So it's sort of like thinking of @Neyn'ite and ma Neyn'ite as the same kind of thing. But that's just how I like to think of it. ;)

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
  • Karma: 11
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #12 on: February 21, 2011, 10:16:12 pm »
irayo nìtxan, ma Ekirä! that definitely puts it in perspective :D

still wondering why ma oeyä was only said once in the film for 'my'- ma is used a lot and the subtitles or Wiki with all the Na'vi spoken in the film say that it translates to my. not sure if they would make that 'mistake' so many times or not?
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Ikran Ahiyìk

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 800
  • Karma: 30
  • Key aronsrelngawnop. Key aswey.
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2011, 02:50:20 am »
The mistake made by actors is mainly pronounciation, only..

...

An important point made..

It should be noted that my is sometimes used as a vocative marker in English, so translating ma X as my X is not necessarily incorrect.


On a more serious note, ma 'ite --> my daughter is entirely correct. This is a good example of the vocative function of my.

Subtitles won't show you the exact literal meanings, just only what the whole line about.

Ma oeyä should be my rather than nothing, because oeyä is my exactly,

but if there's simply ma, then you can't say either with or without my is wrong.

For the case with my for ma, translation treats my as a vocative marker,

like the line Ma 'ite... My daughter..., you seldom call other's daughter "daughter",

so the my doesn't carry the meaning of "me's" sharply.

If you change the translation to Daughter..., it may seems to become an order, and it is not the mood on screen.
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
  • Karma: 11
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2011, 03:48:49 am »
true. is a bit confusing though :P
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Amaya

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 887
  • Karma: 20
  • Growing up in the woods
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2011, 05:41:31 am »
 ;D  Language is always a little confusing.  I'd forgotten the twitter reference because I don't use it, sorry, it is much easier for you younglings to understand ;)

Actually, (randomly and please don't worry about this in relation to na'vi, I'm just rambling) I realized as I was going through this explanation that I don't know why it took me so long to get "ma" since Irish Gaelic, which I studied for two years, does something very similar.  There, you use "a" before the name of the person you're talking to, like "ca bfuil tu, a sheamuis" if you're talking to seamus.  And yes, if you didn't catch the subtle shift in spelling, it lenites.   >.<  Just imagine how awkward THAT could have been if it was borrowed for Na'vi?

So remember, kiddies, IT COULD BE WORSE! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
  • Karma: 11
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2011, 02:20:36 pm »
gee, stereotyping us younger folk, are we, ma Amaya? :P
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Amaya

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 887
  • Karma: 20
  • Growing up in the woods
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2011, 02:44:27 pm »
Teasing, my darling, teasing! ;) ;)

Actually I was thinking about the "Oh" vs "O" and realized up here we tend to write both interchangably... as evidenced in the most obvious use of "o" I don't think anyone's mentioned...

"Oh Canada"

 ::) Yes, I'm a bad Canucklehead, I didn't even think of this example when looking for an equivalent for "ma" ::) ::) ::)  *raps own knuckles with a ruler*

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

  • Palulukan Makto
  • *****
  • Posts: 1119
  • Karma: 11
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2011, 06:00:21 pm »
wait huh I'm confused ???
old gallery link?id=2025[/img]


oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Amaya

  • Ikran Makto
  • *****
  • *
  • Posts: 887
  • Karma: 20
  • Growing up in the woods
Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2011, 06:02:49 pm »
what part are you confuzzled over, ma Neyn'ite?  I can try to enlighten you.

 

Become LearnNavi's friend on Facebook Follow LearnNavi on Twitter! Watch LearnNavi's videos on YouTube

SMF 2.0.15 | SMF © 2017, Simple Machines
Privacy Policy
| XHTML | RSS | WAP2 | Site Rules

LearnNavi is not affiliated with the official Avatar website,
James Cameron, or the Twentieth Century-Fox Film Corporation.
All trademarks and servicemarks are the properties of their respective owners.
Images in the LearnNavi.org Forums and Gallery may not be used without permission.

LearnNavi Affiliates:
ToS

LearnNavi is the community to learn Na'vi, the Avatar Language
"A place where real friendships are made." -Paul Frommer

AvatarMeet | Learn Na'vi Forum | Learn Na'vi Wiki | Na'viteri

LearnNavi