Author Topic: ma/ma oeyä?  (Read 2564 times)

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Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #20 on: February 22, 2011, 06:27:53 pm »
you said that you didn't think of the 'oh' for 'oh Canada'- but that's what we were talking about, 'oh' or 'o'. ???
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Amaya

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #21 on: February 22, 2011, 06:47:04 pm »
ahhhh, but that's what I mean, it's both the same "o", the adressing "o" not the exclamation of surprise.

Up here we tend to write it both ways and just rely on context to understand whether someone is surprised or adressing someone  :D

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #22 on: February 22, 2011, 06:49:17 pm »
it is technically the same thing, however, 'O' is used for things like 'O Holy Spirit', etc.
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Amaya

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #23 on: February 22, 2011, 06:58:25 pm »
*nod* the other is like  "Oh!  I didn't see you there!"

and there's also, "Oh, now I understand"

but iin this case it's all "Oh Canada/O Canada" that we're discussing.

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #24 on: February 22, 2011, 07:01:17 pm »
which, I'm thinking O Canada is just the 'o' without the 'h'. ;)
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Amaya

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #25 on: February 22, 2011, 07:06:41 pm »
 ;) yup, it's just you see it written both ways up here.

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2011, 07:28:23 pm »
ah, okay :D
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Ftxavanga Txe′lan

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2011, 06:37:59 am »
Interesting conversation! :)

Hm, I'm not sure if this has been mentioned before, but wouldn't it be possible that ma oeyä (ma oeyä tsmukan) [in comparison to ma (ma 'ite)] puts the emphasis on the possession? :o That could explain the fact that the two lines are translated as my brother and my daughter. Perhaps they can both imply possession to a certain degree, depending on the usage, and oeyä is added to really underline that.

Don't know if this makes sense.. :D

Offline Amaya

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2011, 06:41:36 am »
hmmmm....possible, I suppose, but I'm not sure I'd stretch that far...but then, I'm careful about stuff  ;D

You do realize, of course, that now I want to translate "Ma Kanata" >.>  If only we had names for the cardinal directions...  Pretty hard to translate "True north, strong and free" without a word for "north"

Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2011, 07:05:08 am »
That could explain the fact that the two lines are translated as my brother and my daughter.

Ma 'ite is translated as "my daughter" because actually there's no other way to translate that into English, since English doesn't really have a vocative marker. So in that example the word my kind of "takes the role" of that marker.

Perhaps they can both imply possession to a certain degree, depending on the usage, and oeyä is added to really underline that.

No, ma doesn't indicate possession in any case. It's just a way to show a person that you address him/her directly. Compare:

 -Ma oeyä 'ite, tskoti munge - (o) my daughter, take the bow. (address)
and
 -Oeyä 'itel tskot munge - my daughter takes the bow. (possession)
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Ftxavanga Txe′lan

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #30 on: February 23, 2011, 07:28:17 am »
You do realize, of course, that now I want to translate "Ma Kanata" >.>  If only we had names for the cardinal directions...  Pretty hard to translate "True north, strong and free" without a word for "north"

hihi It's true that the absence of cardinal directions makes it difficult! :o It would be epic though. ;D

That could explain the fact that the two lines are translated as my brother and my daughter.

Ma 'ite is translated as "my daughter" because actually there's no other way to translate that into English, since English doesn't really have a vocative marker. So in that example the word my kind of "takes the role" of that marker.

Ow.. NOW I think I get it! :D It makes very much sense. :) Thank you for the enlightenment! :3

Offline Ikran Ahiyìk

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #31 on: February 23, 2011, 09:09:34 am »
I saw some reverse example very long time ago, they said something like

Quote
Eytukan lu oeru [...] *
Tolaron ma Neytiril yerikit. *

See what's happen when you place them wrongly.
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


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Offline Ekirä

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #32 on: February 23, 2011, 10:59:59 am »
The great Tirea Aean has spoken. ::)

________

"MY" is not a vocative.

One can say in English, "Daughter, please do as you are told." the
vocative in English is more the 'comma space' between the
instruction/speech and the person for whom it is meant.

"MA" is DEFINED as a vocative. it has the super simple nature of just
being: "That word you just have to put in front of the name/title of the
person being spoken to"

eg "Ma Tsu'tey kempe si nga?", "Kaltxì ma oeyä eylan"

In that second example, that is, "Hello, my friends." "Kaltxì", is the
greeting "hello"(we all know that). Ma is simply there because "oeyä
eylan" is whom "Kaltxì" is being addressed/said to...

That is clear kefyak?

___________

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #33 on: February 23, 2011, 02:33:15 pm »
ma Sireayä, Neytiri addressed the two viperwolves directly in the beginning yet still said ma oeyä. :-\
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #34 on: February 23, 2011, 03:46:42 pm »
ma Sireayä, Neytiri addressed the two viperwolves directly in the beginning yet still said ma oeyä. :-\

And did so correctly. Effectively, what she was saying is O my (brother, I think). ma oeyä is a very common usage in Na`vi.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro eylan.falulukana@gmail.com

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #35 on: February 23, 2011, 09:44:09 pm »
ah, so ma Amaya, you were right! :D
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #36 on: February 23, 2011, 11:09:34 pm »
The mistake made by actors is mainly pronounciation, only..

Not really.  Even Grace could be considered to say ma ayeveng, but slurs into something that sounds like my eveng.

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Offline eejmensenikbenhet

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #37 on: February 24, 2011, 01:32:39 am »
I always see it from the (acient) Greek side, in actient Greek they use an Ώ to mark the vocative.

Ώ Ὀδυσσεύς - ma Odysseus - Odysseus

So to me it's just a marker that doesn't have any true meaning but can be replaces with an O sounding like the Greek Ώ.
Ma tsmukan - Brother or O, Brother
Ma oeyä eylan - My friends
Ma nawma sa'nok - Great Mother or O, Great Mother

Offline Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #38 on: February 24, 2011, 04:23:59 am »
ma Emibh, I like that :D
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Offline Ikran Ahiyìk

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Re: ma/ma oeyä?
« Reply #39 on: February 24, 2011, 04:26:48 am »
Ma have nothing related to oeyä ...
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


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