ma/ma oeyä?

Started by Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite, February 21, 2011, 02:16:01 PM

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Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

which is 'my'? because, in the film, Neytiri says 'ma oeyä tsmukan' (my brother) to the viperwolves she killed; but, for instance, when Eytukan is dying, he says 'ma 'ite' and the subtitles say 'my daughter'. :-\
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Sireayä mokri

My is oeyä. Ma is vocative marker, use should use it when addressing someone directly.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Carborundum

#2
It should be noted that my is sometimes used as a vocative marker in English, so translating ma X as my X is not necessarily incorrect.


On a more serious note, ma 'ite --> my daughter is entirely correct. This is a good example of the vocative function of my.
We learn from our mistakes only if we are made aware of them.
If I make a mistake, please bring it to my attention for karma.

Eanikran

Quote from: Carborundum on February 21, 2011, 02:20:47 PM
It should be noted that my is sometimes used as a vocative marker in English, so translating ma X as my X is not necessarily incorrect.

THIS PIECE IS WHAT ALL TRUE WARRIORS STRIVE FOR.

anyway, yeah, ma doesn't directly mean 'my' like oeyä does. I remember the mass of confusion when the forum just started after Avatar came out with everybody thinking Ney said 'my jake' at the end ;D


Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

ah, irayo! so I guess Zoe Saldana made that mistake? :P

ma Eanikran; I remember when I thought that too, and then figured it out that she was saying Jake but with her language the first time I watched the movie after learning 'ma'.
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Amaya

No, "Ma oeyä tsmukan" isn't a mistake, it's just a little more...formal, I guess you could say.  more like "oh my brother" rather than "oh brother"

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

ma Amaya, are you sure about that? it would make sense, but :-\
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Amaya

Pretty sure I'm sure *nod*

Honestly, the tendency on the forums to assume everything the actors say is wrong is a bit...disturbing.  Yes the language has grown, but that doesn't mean that with all the language coaches and personal attention from our good karyu they didn't do very well.

Sorry, that was confusing, a lot of negatives, basically what I'm trying to say is there's no reason to take the default position that everything the actors said must be wrong before confirming whether it's right (unless we're talking about sam/jake's pronounciation XD ).  Seriously!  What ever happened to "Innocent until proven guilty" anymore?

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

I never said I believed that the actors said their Na'vi lines right. I even noticed myself some of the mistakes. rutxe, don't put words in my mouth, ma Amaya. I was just wondering if they would have a word for 'oh' and, if not, if that was a mistake by Zoe, and if not either of those, what it would mean to have ma oeyä together, since 'ma' technically does not mean anything. except maybe 'sir/ma'm'.
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Amaya

ah, no I know there are mistakes, sorry, just reacting to how some other people are around here.  Do you mean is there something for like "Oh!  I didn't see you there!"?  That kind of "oh"?

The "o" I was talking about was the kindof old-fashioned "o" like "o god our help in ages past"

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

well, either or, really. though, of you were speaking of o instead of oh, you should have typed that in your original post :P would have been easier for me to understand. but, therein also begs the question if the Na'vi would use a term like o or oh.
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Ekirä

Ma is a necessary marker that's used in Na'vi when addressing someone--so whether you add oeyä (my) in there or not, you still have to use ma. It's not a polite form of addressing someone, it's always necessary. I do think it can be confusing how much it sounds like my, but no matter what, if you're addressing someone in Na'vi you have to put ma in front. I'm not sure if this was what you were asking, but I figured I'd try to spell it out a bit more.

And instead of thinking of it as a form of the old English O, I like to think of it as @ like when you're talking to someone on Twitter (I believe Muzer came up with that one?). So it's sort of like thinking of @Neyn'ite and ma Neyn'ite as the same kind of thing. But that's just how I like to think of it. ;)

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

irayo nìtxan, ma Ekirä! that definitely puts it in perspective :D

still wondering why ma oeyä was only said once in the film for 'my'- ma is used a lot and the subtitles or Wiki with all the Na'vi spoken in the film say that it translates to my. not sure if they would make that 'mistake' so many times or not?
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Ikran Ahiyìk

The mistake made by actors is mainly pronounciation, only..

...

An important point made..

Quote from: Carborundum on February 21, 2011, 02:20:47 PM
It should be noted that my is sometimes used as a vocative marker in English, so translating ma X as my X is not necessarily incorrect.


On a more serious note, ma 'ite --> my daughter is entirely correct. This is a good example of the vocative function of my.

Subtitles won't show you the exact literal meanings, just only what the whole line about.

Ma oeyä should be my rather than nothing, because oeyä is my exactly,

but if there's simply ma, then you can't say either with or without my is wrong.

For the case with my for ma, translation treats my as a vocative marker,

like the line Ma 'ite... My daughter..., you seldom call other's daughter "daughter",

so the my doesn't carry the meaning of "me's" sharply.

If you change the translation to Daughter..., it may seems to become an order, and it is not the mood on screen.
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

true. is a bit confusing though :P
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Amaya

 ;D  Language is always a little confusing.  I'd forgotten the twitter reference because I don't use it, sorry, it is much easier for you younglings to understand ;)

Actually, (randomly and please don't worry about this in relation to na'vi, I'm just rambling) I realized as I was going through this explanation that I don't know why it took me so long to get "ma" since Irish Gaelic, which I studied for two years, does something very similar.  There, you use "a" before the name of the person you're talking to, like "ca bfuil tu, a sheamuis" if you're talking to seamus.  And yes, if you didn't catch the subtle shift in spelling, it lenites.   >.<  Just imagine how awkward THAT could have been if it was borrowed for Na'vi?

So remember, kiddies, IT COULD BE WORSE! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

gee, stereotyping us younger folk, are we, ma Amaya? :P
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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Amaya

Teasing, my darling, teasing! ;) ;)

Actually I was thinking about the "Oh" vs "O" and realized up here we tend to write both interchangably... as evidenced in the most obvious use of "o" I don't think anyone's mentioned...

"Oh Canada"

::) Yes, I'm a bad Canucklehead, I didn't even think of this example when looking for an equivalent for "ma" ::) ::) ::)  *raps own knuckles with a ruler*

Neyn'ite Te Tsahìk Txeptsyìp'ite

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oel ayngati kameie, ma aysmukan sì aysmuke, Eywa ayngahu.
oeyä tsmukan, ma Nick, oeru ngaytxoa livu. nìmwey tsurokx. nga yawne lu oer.

Amaya

what part are you confuzzled over, ma Neyn'ite?  I can try to enlighten you.