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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Na'vi expressions and idioms
« on: February 01, 2010, 08:30:08 pm »
Some things have a common way to say them in a language that may not be the most obvious.  In some cases it is even in the territory of idiomatic, such that you have to actually learn what to say in certain situations.  So I am attempting to collect a series of common expressions and idioms here.

Common phrases

All of these are sourced directly from Frommer for the moment, as a community I do not believe we are quite at the point of developing our own idioms.  If someone finds one I missed or learns of a new one (Again, for now only from Frommer directly or indirectly) feel free to pass it on, and I'll add it to the list.

What is your name?/What are you called?
Of course when you first meet someone, you would like to know who you are talking to.  You could literally ask what someone's name is, however like many language, Na'vi has an idiom which expresses the concept of being named something as what you are called.
Fyape fko syaw ngar?
Lit. In what way does one call to you?

My name is ___/I am called ___
You can say the former in Na'vi using the word for name (Tstxo oeyä lu ___), however sticking with the idiom of being called by a name, as in the "I am called ___" example above, the common way to say this in Na'vi is:
Oeru syaw (fko) ___
Lit. One calls to me (as) ___ (When responding to someone asking what you are called, the fko can be left off, as it is contextually understood.)

Hello/Greetings
When you see someone of course it is polite to say hello, and of course the Na'vi are no different.  They have a word for hello like most languages, and it serves well for most situations.  There is also another more idiomatic expression "I see you".  There is some disagreement on exactly when this is appropriate, but to the Na'vi it seems to imply some level of familiarity, though not necessarily intimacy.  Outside the fictional world of Pandora it seems to be thrown around a little more casually than that, often standing in as a more formal "hello".
Kaltxì
Lit. Hello (Casual)
Oel ngati kameie
Lit. I see you (Familiar)
Kame ngat
Lit. See you (Familiar/casual)
*Note: Oel ngati kameie is typically accompanied by a gesture from the forehead.  In a casual response sometimes the gesture can be used without anything voiced.  This of course would not work when not speaking in person.

Welcome
You don't always greet someone with "Hello", especially if they are just arriving.  In English, we can of course say "Welcome!"  In Na'vi you can express a similar concept as well.
Zola'u nìprrte'
Lit. Pleasantly come

Thanks/You're welcome
Thanks in Na'vi is pretty straight forward, though it is an irregular form of a "si" based verb.  However, the response is a bit idiomatic and can vary based on the circumstances.
Irayo
Lit. Thanks
Si irayo (Oe si irayo ngaru)
Lit. Thank (I thank you)

Response
Depending on what the thanks is for and how the responder feels about it, there are several possible responses.
Kea tìkin
Lit. No need (There is no need to thank me / it was nothing)
Nìprrte'
Lit. Gladly, with pleasure (I did it with pleasure)
Oeru meuia
Lit. An honor to me (It was an honor to help you)
Hayalo ta oe / Hayalo oeta
Lit. Next time from me (Next time I will be thanking you / you would do the same for me)
Pum ngeyä
Lit. Yours (It is I who should be thanking you)

Response to a compliment
When you are complimented it is polite to respond.  There are of course many responses, however customarily in Na'vi, "Thanks" is not one of them.

Ke pxan
Lit. Not worthy (I don't deserve your praise)
Tstunwi
Lit. Kind (That's kind of you to say)
Ngaru tsulfä
Lit. To you the mastery (You are better at what you complimented me on, so you have the right to give me praise, which I humbly accept)

Congratulations
When you hear of someones good fortune, it can be kind to congratulate them.

Seykxel sì nitram
Lit. Strong and happy

Good bye/See you again soon
It's always good to express a good wish on the way out, and the Na'vi express this with the spiritual sense of seeing kame, so the idiom here is fairly close to the English (And many other language) idiomatic expressions for well wishing.  The full expression would probably be Oel ngati kìyevame ye'rìn, where kame takes the future proximate subjunctive infix, expressing a wish that you will be seeing them soon.  However, this is usually shortened to just one word.
Kìyevame
Lit. (I will) see (you again) soon

Of course the Na'vi are very spiritual people, seeing as how they have a real tangible entity they can commune with, which they call the great mother (nawma sa'nok) or Eywa.  So you can also use something like "Eywa be with you".  In full this would be Eywa ngahu livu however the "livu" is dropped.  This is closer in meaning to "Goodbye" which is a contraction of "God be with ye".
Eywa ngahu
Lit. Eywa with you

There are so may ways to wish people well on parting.  You could also bid them have a good night.  In English we often shorten this to just "good night", but the full phrase would be "Have a good night".  You could do similar in Na'vi with Txon lefpom livu ngar.
Txon lefpom
Lit. Peaceful night

Another common thing to say on parting is "Until next time" - which you can also say in Na'vi.
Hayalovay
Lit. Until next time

How are you/Are you well?
It is also of course polite or friendly to ask someone how they are doing.  The Na'vi do this by asking if you have well being.
Ngaru lu fpom srak?
Lit. Do you have well-being/is well being to you?

Response
Since this is a yes/no question (As indicated by srak) a simple srane or kehe will do, or you could respond with the same form of Oeru lu fpom.

And you?
(After responding to "What is your name?", "Are you well?" or any other question asking about you in the dative (ngaru))
Often when exchanging pleasantries, rather than repeating what was just asked of you, you just ask "And you?"  Na'vi does this by usuing the continuation participle tut.
Ngaru tut?
Lit. And to you?

I love you
Of course everyone wants to express affection, no matter what language.  So in Na'vi you can do it by expressing that someone is beloved to you.
Nga yawne lu oer.
Lit. You are beloved to me.

Forgive me
Asking for fogiveness in Na'vi is done by asking to recieve it...
Oeru txoa livu
Lit. May I have forgiveness

I have ____
Na'vi has no verb "to have".  Instead it uses a construction common to many languages of combining the dative case "-ru" and the verb "to be", creating a similar concept.  This works both for physical possession of objects, as well as possession of states of being (Well being, sickness, etc) and abstract concepts (Words, news, message, friends, etc).  Typically the verb comes first in such situations.
Lu oeru ____
Lit. I have ____

How do you say ____ in Na'vi?/How do you say ____ in English?
In learning a language, of course vocabulary is always a limiting factor for discourse, so it's always handy to be able to ask how to say something.  In Na'vi there is a concise way to ask what a word would be.
____ nìNa'vi slu 'upe?
Lit. ____ in Na'vi becomes what? (How do you say ____ in Na'vi)
____ nì'ìnglìsì slu 'upe?
Lit. ____ in English becomes what? (How do you say ____ in English)

Sample conversation using some of the above idioms:
Kaltxì, oel ke tsole'a ngati srekrr...  Fyape fko syaw ngar?
Hello, I have not seen you before...  What are you called?
Kaltxì, oeru syaw Jake Sully.  Ngaru tut?
Hello, I am Jake Sully.  And you?
Oeru syaw Neytiri.
I am Neytiri.
Ngaru lu fpom srak ma Neytiri?
Are you well, Neytiri?
Oeru lu fpom, slä oel tspìyang ngati fa swizaw oeyä!  Ngaru tut?
I am well, but I am about to kill you with my arrow.  And you?
Kehe, lam fwa oe tìyerkup...  Tìng nari!  Atokirina'!
No, it seems that I am about to die...  Oh look!  A seed of the great tree!
Pak, oeru txoa livu, lam fwa nga rey.  Kìyevame!
Bah, forgive me, it seems you live.  See you again soon!
Eywa ngahu ma Neytiri.
Eywa be with you Neytiri!


Other Idioms
All of these are either directly from Paul Frommer, or are approved by him.

Oeru teya si.
Fills me with satisfaction/joy

Ngeyä kxetse lu oeru.
You're going down.  (Lit. Your tail is mine.)
« Last Edit: August 20, 2013, 11:59:32 pm by Tirea Aean »
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2010, 11:13:27 pm »
Excellent topic!

Offline Txontaw

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #2 on: February 01, 2010, 11:17:14 pm »
LOL @ the example conversation.
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Eaite Randjam

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2010, 12:23:57 am »
Wonderful collection of casual sayings!  I also laughed a little at the example.  Thank you omängum Fra'uti.

Offline Kayrìlien

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2010, 12:30:07 am »
This is a great thread to have in the beginner area. If it's not already stickied, it should be, as introductions and other idiomatic greetings are the most important phrases to learn in ANY language.

+1

Kayrìlien

Offline Plumps

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2010, 04:34:17 am »
Wow, thanks for that...

How about the basic construction for "I have..." to add?
Lu oeru ....

I love the sample sentences. Like learning material completely out of context for a real situation ;D And I've seen that so often...
"I'm going to kill you with my arrow..." - "Oh, well..." - "Have a nice day..." :P

+1 Karma ;)

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2010, 04:46:17 am »
How about the basic construction for "I have..." to add?
Lu oeru ....
Good idea.  Added!
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline Plumps

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #7 on: February 02, 2010, 05:12:05 am »
Oh, very important!

How do you say .... ?
"What becomes that in English/Na'vi?"
X nì(y)Ìnglìsì slu 'upe/peu? (I'm not quite sure how to treat the double ì )
X nìNa'vi slu 'upe/peu?

Could go in greetings/goodbye
"Have a good night."
Txon lefpom livu ngar. or
Txon lefpom. / Lefpoma txon.

Hope that helps. :)

Offline justNaviBrother

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #8 on: February 02, 2010, 10:29:39 am »
(Lu oeru)
sorry for question, in what meaning(like "i have something")?
Pefya oel tsun tivìng atanit, txo ayfeyä aynari tsere'a mì txon???
Ma aysmukan si aysmuke, ayoeng zene 'awsiteng livu, talun kawnga krr set.
Ye'rìn oe spaw atan zilva'u ulte frapol Eywati kilvameie

Offline Plumps

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #9 on: February 02, 2010, 10:57:54 am »
(Lu oeru)
sorry for question, in what meaning(like "i have something")?

As omängum explained:
I have ____
Na'vi has no verb "to have".  Instead it uses a construction common to many languages of combining the dative case "-ru" and the verb "to be", creating a similar concept.  This works both for physical possession of objects, as well as possession of states of being (Well being, sickness, etc) and abstract concepts (Words, news, message, friends, etc).  Typically the verb comes first in such situations.
Lu oeru ____
Lit. I have ____

You can use this for "I have a car" as well has "I have a cold" or "I have an idea"

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #10 on: February 02, 2010, 11:37:08 am »
Hey Steven, mind if I LaTeX this? Maybe as an appendix to the dictionary?

Offline justNaviBrother

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2010, 12:47:27 pm »
(Lu oeru)
sorry for question, in what meaning(like "i have something")?

As omängum explained:
I have ____
Na'vi has no verb "to have".  Instead it uses a construction common to many languages of combining the dative case "-ru" and the verb "to be", creating a similar concept.  This works both for physical possession of objects, as well as possession of states of being (Well being, sickness, etc) and abstract concepts (Words, news, message, friends, etc).  Typically the verb comes first in such situations.
Lu oeru ____
Lit. I have ____

You can use this for "I have a car" as well has "I have a cold" or "I have an idea"
irayo, ma 'eylan:) for explanations;) that is realy cool
Pefya oel tsun tivìng atanit, txo ayfeyä aynari tsere'a mì txon???
Ma aysmukan si aysmuke, ayoeng zene 'awsiteng livu, talun kawnga krr set.
Ye'rìn oe spaw atan zilva'u ulte frapol Eywati kilvameie

Offline Ftiafpi

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2010, 12:56:34 pm »
Great thread, this will be very useful I'm sure. A few questions about the sample conversation though.

It seems that "Ngaru tut?", while correct, is quite far from "Ngaru lu fpom srak ma Neytiri?" I don't see any way to get "Ngaru tut?" into your conversation any other way though so I suppose it's okay. Perhaps in the next line, rather than just "kehe" he could say "no, I am not well,..."

Also, perhaps "nang" should go after "tse'a" since we don't have any examples of it going anywhere other than the end of a sentence (similar to "srak").

Also, seems that, while literally correct, the English translation of "lam futa nga rerey" should be "it seems that you will live".

Just some thoughts though, nothing really wrong with any of it and, again, this is a huge help. Irayo ma tsmukan.

Offline Taronyu

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2010, 02:15:46 pm »
Ah, I went ahead and did it anyway.

http://content.learnnavi.org/taronyu/Phrases.pdf

Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2010, 04:10:12 pm »
Hey Steven, mind if I LaTeX this? Maybe as an appendix to the dictionary?

LaTeX?  bLeX. :)

Wikified.  http://wiki.learnnavi.org/index.php?title=Expressions_and_Idioms

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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #15 on: February 02, 2010, 04:25:55 pm »
Cover it in as much wiki latex as you want, just be warned this is a living thread, so will get periodic changes as new phrases come out or are pointed out.  For example I just added phrases for "Good night" and "How do you say X" as suggested.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #16 on: February 02, 2010, 09:04:55 pm »
Cover it in as much wiki latex as you want

:)

I just added phrases for "Good night" and "How do you say X" as suggested.

Me too!

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Offline TireatSamsiyu

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2010, 02:04:52 pm »
Irayo for this Thread.
Really helps me pronunciate these casual words, this really helps
Irayo again and great job mate. :)




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Offline Erimeyz

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2010, 05:45:19 pm »
What about "thank you"?  Here's what we have so far (search this page for "irayo"):

Ngaru irayo seiyi oe nìmun.
To/for you thanks make/do-(positive) I again.
"I thank you again."

Sìpawmìri oe ngaru seiyi irayo.
Questions-(topical) I to/for you make/do-(positive) thanks.
"I thank you for the questions."

Ngaru irayo seiyi oe nìtxan!
To/for you thanks make/do-(positive) I very much!
"I thank you very much!"

Irayo nìmun.
Thanks again.
"Thanks again."

Ngeyä pxesìpawmìri ngaru seiyi oe irayo.
Your three questions-(topical) to/for you make/do-(positive) I thanks.
"I thank you regarding your three questions."
"I thank you for your three questions."

Ngeyä txantsana tìpawmìri ngaru seiyi oe irayo.
Your excellent question-(topical) to/for you make/do-(positive) I thanks.
"I thank you regarding your excellent question."
"I thank you for your excellent question."

Irayo 'eylanur awngeyä Prrton a kxeyeyti rolun.
Thanks to/for friend of-us Prrton who mistake found.
"Thanks to our friend Prrton, who found the mistake."

Note that we've got one attestation of "Irayo" by itself meaning "Thanks!", which I used to think was an inappropriate application of an English idiom, but seems to be legitimate.  We also have one attestation of "Thanks to ..." with the recipient of the thanks taking the dative as you might expect.

All the rest are of the form "I make thanks to you", with no words being omitted, the compound verb irayo si taking the lauditive infix (and the resulting seii becoming seiyi to prevent doubling a vowel), the verb being intransitive, the recipient of the thanks taking the dative, and the words being shuffled about freely... including one instance of the si compound getting reversed (seiyi irayo) and two instances of it getting reversed and split (seiyi oe irayo)!!

Irayo!

  - Eri

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Na'vi expressions and idioms
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2010, 06:30:16 pm »
I'll consider how to condense that a little.  IMO the basic phrase is "Irayo si" and like any other compound verb, it is intransitive with the recipient in the dative.

Irayo on it's own would just be a very casual shortened form.  Yes, "thanks" is an English idiom, and just blindly translating it to "Irayo" would be a nono, but shortened phrases like that are shortened for a reason, and any culture will have the same reason to shorten it.  So I think we can take "irayo" on it's own as a Na'vi idiom.

The two that include more than just Irayo without "si" I think can be taken just as an extension of the shortened form.  The final one looks a bit deceptive because of how much is there, but when it comes down to it, all you have is tanks and a dative marked noun.  The rest of it is just a clause to modify the noun.  I see that as the same thing Frommer did when he used a bare dative with no verb to address his response letter.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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