Need translation

Started by Ikran le'eylan, June 27, 2013, 07:10:02 PM

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Ikran le'eylan

Kaltxì can someone please help me to translate this text.

I will be remembered. I fought with Toruk Makto. We were brothers. And he was my last shadow.

Irayo :)
May Eywa be with you

Tìtstewan

#1
Kaltxì ma Ikran le'eylan

I'm afraid, this topic don't fit well here in the Community Support. I think, this topic should be there: Beginners (This is a question about the Na'vi language /a translation help)

However, let's see, if I can solve it:
Quote from: Ikran le'eylan on June 27, 2013, 07:10:02 PM
I will be remembered. I fought with Toruk Makto. We were brothers. And he was my last shadow.
Layu 'ok oe. Walmam oe hu Soruk Makto. Oeng tsmukan lalmu. Ulte poan lalmu oeyä uk aham.

...I hope it's correct. (Rutxe, oe lu ngeyn nìtxan, ma ayharyu... :))

Eywa ngahu!

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`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Tìtstewan on June 27, 2013, 08:46:57 PM

Quote from: Ikran le'eylan on June 27, 2013, 07:10:02 PM
I will be remembered. I fought with Toruk Makto. We were brothers. And he was my last shadow.
Layu 'ok oe. Walmam oe hu Soruk Makto. Oeng tsmukan lalmu. Ulte poan lalmu oeyä uk aham.

To finiash this matter up:

Layu 'ok oeru. Walmem oe hu Toruk Makto. Oeng tsmukan lalmu. Ulte poan lalmu oeyä uk ator.

Despite the other corrections, I thought you infix choices were brilliant!

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tìtstewan

Oops, I thought "hu" cause lenition.. :-X

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Blue Elf

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on June 27, 2013, 09:52:50 PM
Quote from: Tìtstewan on June 27, 2013, 08:46:57 PM

Quote from: Ikran le'eylan on June 27, 2013, 07:10:02 PM
I will be remembered. I fought with Toruk Makto. We were brothers. And he was my last shadow.

Layu 'ok oeru. Walmem oe hu Toruk Makto. Oeng tsmukan lalmu. Ulte poan lalmu oeyä uk ator.
Layu 'ok oeru means "I have remembrance", so I remember something. But original statement means, that other remember me, also it is passive voice, so better version is:

Fkol oet zayerok. Walmem oe hu Toruk Makto. Oeng tsmukan lu. Ulte oeri po lu uk ator.
One will remember me. I've fought with Toruk Makto. We two were brothers. And as for me, he was last shadow.

Regarding infixes: once time/aspect was established, there is no need to repeat them. In last sentence probably is good to use topical, alhough I'm not completely sure.
Also not sure if in "we two were brothers" wouldn't be better to use dual. But probably it is okay is it is.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tìtstewan

#5
I'm really think about the "tsmukan". In the original sentence is it in plural (wich means indeed two persons, because I remember Tsu'tey said this sentence to Jake.)
Oeng mesmukan lu.
But also I'm not really sure about it, because it's sounds a bit strange. :-\

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Ezy Ryder

I thought "oeng" means "me and the person I'm speaking with", so that would mean that the person saying the text is referring to his brother. I don't know what whether it was meant to be like that, but if not, I think it should be "moe".
PS.: I also think <asy> infix could fit more (at the beginning), depending on the context.

Kemaweyan

Quote from: Tìtstewan on June 28, 2013, 01:17:59 AM
I'm really think about the "tsmukan". In the original sentence is it in plural (wich means indeed two persons, because I remember Tsu'tey said this sentence to Jake.)
Oeng mesmukan lu.
But also I'm not really sure about it, because it's sounds a bit strange. :-\

We have a rule about number in Na'vi and we must use singular forms in these cases:

Quote from: Karyu PawlNumber Principle (Koren Holpxayä = KH):
In referring to the same entity, express number only once per clause.

  Menga lu oeyä 'eylan.
  You two are my friends.

http://naviteri.org/2011/07/number-in-na%E2%80%99vi/
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Plumps

Quote from: Blue Elf on June 28, 2013, 01:05:41 AM
Ulte oeri po lu uk ator.
And as for me, he was last shadow.

In last sentence probably is good to use topical, alhough I'm not completely sure.
I'd also use it but why on oe? I'd use it on po ;D

Quote from: Ezy Ryder on June 28, 2013, 04:01:04 AM
I thought "oeng" means "me and the person I'm speaking with", so that would mean that the person saying the text is referring to his brother. I don't know what whether it was meant to be like that, but if not, I think it should be "moe".
PS.: I also think <asy> infix could fit more (at the beginning), depending on the context.

That's true – it should be moe.
The future infixes with ‹s› on the other hand are the intention of the speaker ... see in Horen § 6.7.9. So, I don't know how much sense that makes 'I intend to bring about the state that I will be remembered' ???  :-\ possible

Blue Elf

Quote from: Plumps on June 28, 2013, 09:29:10 AM
Quote from: Blue Elf on June 28, 2013, 01:05:41 AM
Ulte oeri po lu uk ator.
And as for me, he was last shadow.

In last sentence probably is good to use topical, alhough I'm not completely sure.
I'd also use it but why on oe? I'd use it on po ;D
Hmm, I can't see anything wrong on my version:
As for me, he is last shadow.

How do you want to use it on po?
Pori po lu uk ator. (??) that looks very strange.
as for him, he is last shadow.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Plumps

I never said there was anything wrong with your version ;)
It's just a gut feeling with me :D
Tì'efumì oeyä, the topic works like an emphasis here, or a refocussing back to Toruk Makto...

Pori lu oeyä uk ator.
He was my last shadow.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

This is one of those situations, I think, where either one is correct. Its the meaning that counts at the end of the day.

Dang on the passive voice! That is so easy to overlook!  >:(

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Taronyu Leleioae

#12
Quote from: Blue Elf on June 28, 2013, 01:05:41 AM
Fkol oet zayerok. Walmem oe hu Toruk Makto. Moe Oeng tsmukan lu. Ulte oeri po lu uk ator.
One will remember me. I've fought with Toruk Makto. We two were brothers. And as for me, he was last shadow.

Regarding infixes: once time/aspect was established, there is no need to repeat them...

I have a related question to this with the complex time infixes.  Yes I understand that once you establish a time frame, you don't normally repeat it, and this makes sense.

But for learning's sake, iIf we took one sentence by itself:  "Moe tsmukan lalmu."  My translation understanding is that "we were brothers (but we aren't any more)" because of the <ol> aspect.  Wouldn't it have been more appropriate to write, "Moe tsmukan larmu." ?  From my thinking, even though Tsu'tey is mortally dead, I would think spiritually he would be adamant that they (from Tsu'tey's point of view) were brothers forever, hence being remembered that way with the story passed to future generations.  It's a subtle difference but I'm looking for deeper understanding with alm vs arm.

Blue Elf

Yes, <arm> gives here good sense, even better than <alm>
<alm> is usually translated as "had verb-ed"
<arm> as "have verb-ing" (past continuous?)
<am> as "verb-ed" (past simple)
Good infix chart is here

QuotePori lu oeyä uk ator.
He was my last shadow.
When I look at this sentence, it looks incomplete - like with missing subject. Topical is not subject of sentence - it's different case.
But compared with similar example from Paul:
Pori pxunpxaw lu pxawpxun.
it seems to be correct. Personally I wouldn't use it this way.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)