Author Topic: News from Egypt  (Read 564 times)

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Offline Yawne Zize’ite

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News from Egypt
« on: November 24, 2011, 11:57:21 pm »
Recently, this statement was put out to inform the world about the protests in Egypt. Since there are already translations in all the widely spoken (i.e. natural) languages I know, I thought I'd try my hand at translating it into Na'vi. So far I've only finished the first paragraph, with many circumlocutions, and the whole piece may be beyond translation.

Updates on the Situation in Egypt: What is Happening
 Dear All,
 I am writing to you to tell you about the situation in Egypt at the moment, as I am not sure about the accuracy of the media. Last Friday there was a huge demonstration in Tahrir Square calling for ending the military rule, to end military trials for civilians (more than 12,000 civilians have been referred to military tribunals) and to object to the supra constitutional principles. There was a huge numbers from different communities that attended the demonstration and most of them left the Square by evening.

 Separate from that, the injured of the revolution & families of martyrs have established a sit-in for months in different areas including Tahrir Square calling for the state to cover their treatment expenses and give them compensations. On Saturday, 19 November, security forced dispersed the injured using violence which provoked people to go back to Tahrir again to support them (like what happened on 28/29 June). Many have claimed that this is the Islamists revolting to gain power, which is completely false, what is going on at the moment is the Egyptian people are revolting against police brutality and military rule.

 Security forces are using different kinds of tear gases excessively, rubber bullets, birdshot and live ammunition against protesters up till now and they are getting more violent with each passing day causing the death of 30 persons and leaving more than 1700 of injured (official records from the Ministry of Health), including many who were targeted in their eyes and the upper part of their bodies. People are being arrested arbitrarily and violently, including volunteers field doctors who are helping the injured and journalists covering the events. Field hospitals are being attacked on purpose to disable doctors from helping the injured.

 As the violence continues today for the 5th day from the security forces against unarmed protesters, more people are taking up the streets in support of the ones already on the ground in more than 5 cities. The one thing that would harm us the most is to portray the situation and simplify it to a fight over power religious/political groups and the army or that the people in the streets are thugs and are seeking the destruction of the country to cause chaos. We are all in the streets fighting against police brutality and militarism.

 Support us by spreading the truth about the situation and correcting the misinformation spreading since Mubarak stepped out.

 Videos:**- *- *
 Images:**-*-*-*-* -*-*
 Statements by Human Rights Groups:
 - Joint Statement by Egyptian Groups:**[En]
 - Human Rights Watch***[En]
 What we are demanding is accountability.
 Thank you

I have:

Pamrel seri oel ayngaru fte piveng ayngaru teri sìleng a mì Masìr* set alunta fkol polatseng fìfmawnteri fmawnit atsleng. Trrpuve aham stäparsolim tute akizazam mì Mitän Etäʼrir** (Tseng apiak Tìäpuseykä) fte tsampongu ftiveiang iveyk, ulte horen tsamponguä ftiveiang iveyk aysutet (tsamsiyu ke lu a tutet apxezazam nìʼul erängeyk horenìl tsamponguä), ulte frapot iveieyk korenìl aʼawve. Nìtxan pxaya tute ta pxaya oloʼ stäparsim ulte lisretxonʼong holum tsatsengftu txampxì....

*Masìr = Egypt, from Egyptian Arabic مَصر Maṣr
**Mitän Etäʼrir = Tahrir Square, from Egyptian Arabic ميدان التحرير Mīdān at-Taḥrīr
This should, perhaps, be Meytän Etäʼrir, since mīdān is also pronounced maidān, but most references use mīdān.

How good is my translation so far? What did I do wrong?
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 12:10:57 am by Yawne Zize’ite »

Offline Carborundum

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Re: News from Egypt
« Reply #1 on: November 25, 2011, 08:37:01 am »
Pamrel seri oel ayngaru
Since pamrel si is intransitive, the subject must be in subjective case (i.e. no declension).

fte piveng ayngaru teri sìleng
Very good usage of fte to introduce a purpose clause. Sìlen occurrences works in the context, but an alternative is tìfkeytok situation.

a mì Masìr* set alunta taluna
Cause alunta effect; effect taluna cause.

fkol polatseng fìfmawnteri fmawnit atsleng.
This is tricky. I would avoid introducing the word tsleng false into the text where it is not already present. Something like this might serve:
fmawnta fìtìfkeytokteri fkol pereng a fì'u ke lu oeru law
what is being said about the situation is unclear to me

Trrpuve aham stäparsolim stäpamarsìm tute akizazam mì Mitän Etäʼrir**
I wouldn't use perfective aspect here, because what happened during the gathering is important to the narrative. Also, why specify a number? Tute apxay seems more accurate.

(Tseng apiak Tìäpuseykä)
I can't make heads or tails of this word.

fte tsampongu ftiveiang iveyk
Another tricky one. I think what you've written is technically correct, but be aware that the meaning is "so that the military stop leading", not "to stop the military rule". A fine point perhaps, and I'm not sure how to express it more clearly.

ulte horen tsamponguä ftiveiang iveyk aysutet
Again, technically correct, but here I'd go for something simpler, like:
ulte horenit tsamponguä 'ivaku

and remove the military laws

 (tsamsiyu ke lu a tutet apxezazam nìʼul erängeyk horenìl tsamponguä)
Hmm. You know, I don't think we have a way to express "more than" when it comes to numbers. Anyway, same as above; technically correct, but a bit awkward. How about:
pxezazama tuteä aysyayti pere'ängun fkol fa horen tsamponguä
the fates of twelve thousand people are being decided by military law

ulte frapot iveieyk korenìl aʼawve.
ulte wäte horenti a wrrpa koren lesngä'i lu
and dispute laws that lay outside the original law
Not really happy with this. We need "exception".

Nìtxan pxaya tute ta pxaya oloʼ stäparsim ulte lisretxonʼong holum tsatsengftu txampxì....
Looks good.

We might want to move this over to the intermediate board.
« Last Edit: November 25, 2011, 08:39:03 am by Carborundum »
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Offline Yawne Zize’ite

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Re: News from Egypt
« Reply #2 on: November 25, 2011, 02:54:59 pm »
I have no idea how to move a post, but I'm fine with it going wherever is most appropriate. I put this in Beginner because I have a beginner-level understanding of Naʼvi IMO.

I missed the word tìfkeytok, and it does work better.

I didn't understand the difference between alunta and taluna. On thinking it over, that makes a lot of sense, and I definitely meant taluna.

I interpreted "I am not sure about the accuracy of the media" as implying that he suspects media falsehoods, but your version is more accurate to what he says.

I'm weak on perfective vs. imperfective; my native language (English) doesn't distinguish them very well. I looked up a Spanish translation while working on this post, and it uses the preterit (past perfective) instead of the imperfect (past imperfective).

"Mīdān at-Taḥrīr" means "Liberation Square". I couldn't find any Naʼvi words relating to "freedom", so I reasoned that liberation isn't far from becoming able to rule yourself and tried to make a deverbal noun from äp-eyk "rule oneself". (Which would collide with however you say "independence" in Naʼvi, but that wasn't on my mind at the time.)

Again, I couldn't think of a noun form of "rule" so I recast the sentence with a verb. Would something like fte eyktan ke lu tsamsiyu "that the leader not be a warrior" work better?

I like your sentence ulte horenit tsamponguä ʼivaku (pxezazama tuteä aysyayti pereʼängun fkol fa horen tsamponguä) better. Less literal, more snappy, and I completely missed the verb peʼun "decide".

Koren lesngäʼi sounds clearer and better than koren aʼawve, while being just as historically inaccurate; as I understand it, the statute Quo Warranto of 1278 is still law in the USA. What about koren ngrrä "root rule"? Ngrrkoren sounds even better but I think that steps on Frommer's toes.

Regarding "supra constitutional principles", I did a bit more research on what he meant. These "supra-constitutional principles" are a specific document released by the Egyptian junta, which hides among the pretty language a declaration that the army shall "defend constitutional legitimacy" (read: launch coups whenever the generals don't like the election results) and shall not be subject to legislative control. I think it would be better to depart from the statement and paraphrase the objectionable "supra-constitutional principles". Perhaps ulte tsampongul pongut lekoren livek "and the military obey the lawlike group [legislature]"?


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