Re: No sun this day?

Started by Kemaweyan, June 07, 2011, 10:08:09 AM

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Kemaweyan

I guess Fìtrr ke lu kea tsawke.
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

Quote from: Kemaweyan on June 07, 2011, 10:08:09 AM
I guess Fìtrr ke lu kea tsawke.
I don't think we even need kea because there's only one sun (unless you're on an alien world ;)).

Quote from: Ikranari on June 07, 2011, 10:23:28 AM
but that says.... today it is no sun  :-\ dosnen't it?

I want it to be like.... day that have no sun...
Am I understandable?  :)
it means "today there's no sun".

to say "a day without sun" it will be trr a tsawkeluke.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Maria TunVrrtep

#2
Quote from: Ikranari on June 07, 2011, 09:49:53 AM
[exitment]HI![/exitment]

Just a simple question!  :D
I wanna say, (a/the) day that have no sun, can still ........
but anyway what I want to put i the end dosen't matter,
beacause the only thing I wonder about is how you would say that first part, a day that have no sun...
I went...
Trr a....
...and then I got stuck.....  ::) :P

Is a ru eaven legal?
[confusion]or do we need to usen tsar? (or dos tsar have nothing to do with this?)[/confusion]

Irayo!
-Ikranari...  :P

Well it may also have something to do with the reason there is no sun.  Is it because there is a storm?  Or could there be an eclipse?  See there are reasons for no sun that could have something to do with how you say there is no sun.  If it's a natural occurrence like a storm it could be one way.  If it's something more esoteric like an eclipse there could be a different way you say it.

EDIT:  Don't quote me on that.  I'm really thinking out loud, so to speak.  It seems to me that a lot of the Na'vi language has conditions so there could be a different way to say something.  Like in English we say and - it's for connecting clauses or a list of words.  In Na'vi, ulte is to connect clauses and sì is for lists of words.  Conditions that are applied to the sentence. 
"Ke'u ke lu law a krr frakem tsunslu." -
    Margaret Drabble
("When nothing is sure, everything is possible.")



Tirea Aean

Quote from: Tswusayona Tsamsiyu on June 07, 2011, 10:25:34 AM
Quote from: Kemaweyan on June 07, 2011, 10:08:09 AM
I guess Fìtrr ke lu kea tsawke.
I don't think we even need kea because there's only one sun (unless you're on an alien world ;)).

Quote from: Ikranari on June 07, 2011, 10:23:28 AM
but that says.... today it is no sun  :-\ dosnen't it?

I want it to be like.... day that have no sun...
Am I understandable?  :)
it means "today there's no sun".

to say "a day without sun" it will be trr a tsawkeluke.

Came here to say just this.

Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

your version is also good.
you don't need kea because there's only one sun.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Ikranari on June 07, 2011, 10:41:49 AM
But trr a tsawke ke lu will also work? right?

I think then you need to add tsar after a.

Alternatively, it could be trr a tsar lu taw atstu.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Tirea Aean

I know that you are trying to say

The day the sun does not shine

But you keep actually saying

The day when the sun ceases to exist.

;)

Sireayä mokri

That's why you need tsar to indicate possession.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

even if you don't use tsar it still means "a day that in it there's no sun". we can just attribute tsawke ke lu (or tsawkeluke) to trr.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Tirea Aean

but the thing is, the sun still EXISTS, kefyak? it's just not SHOWING/SHINING at the moment. we dont really have a sure way to say this.

though we can say that the sun was hiding that day. the day on which the sun hides. how about that?

also, dont we even have new weather vocab for cloudy? or overcast skies? or do you REALLY want to say that for a day the sun does not even exist? O.o

lewopx, lepwopx nìpxay ( http://naviteri.org/2011/05/weather-part-2-and-a-bit-more-2/ )




Carborundum

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 07, 2011, 04:43:24 PM
but the thing is, the sun still EXISTS, kefyak? it's just not SHOWING/SHINING at the moment.
I don't think any of the proposed sentences would mean that the sun has ceased to exist.

Trr a tsawkeluke means 'the day (which is) without a sun', which seems like a very good translation IMO.

Trr a tsar ke lu tsawke means 'the day which has no sun', which again seems just fine to me.

Trr a tsawke ke lu on the other hand isn't really grammatical, I don't think. It means either 'the day which the sun isn't (the day)' or 'the day which isn't the sun', neither of which makes any kind of sense.
We learn from our mistakes only if we are made aware of them.
If I make a mistake, please bring it to my attention for karma.

Tirea Aean

Its probably rare to want to say that the sun doesn't exist for a day, so really if somesone said either of those first two in carborundum's post, I would get that yo probably mean its cloudy to the point there "is no sun"(even though its obviously still there)

Maybe I'm the only one who thinks that "the day that has no sun" is figurative and not very literal?

After making that point, ill probably agree with carborundum.

Sireayä mokri

I think doesn't exist statement would involve ke fkeytok; with ke lu it's rather more idiomatic way to say this.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Tirea Aean

touché. I was thinking that, but I wasn't sure if there is any overlap between lu and fkeytok. it seems fkeytok is just more specific than lu, a general verb for be.

k2c

Blue Elf

#14
Although with the cross after funeral I add another:
trr a tsawkel ke terìng atanit
I only hope that there is no nit-picker which say it can be understood as "day when dark sun is on the sky" (although it sounds quite poetic, isn't it)  :)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

it's fine, just the <er> shouldn't be there in general senses.
Nivume Na'vit, fpivìl nìNa'vi, kivame na Na'vi.....
oer fko syaw tswusayona tsamsiyu

Sireayä mokri

Should be tsawkel and atanit then.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Tirea Aean

Quote from: Blue Elf on June 10, 2011, 09:00:58 AM
Although with the cross after funeral I add another:
trr a tsawke ke terìng atan
I only hope that there is no nit-picker which say it can be understood as "day when dark sun is on the sky" (although it sounds quite poetic, isn't it)  :)

Oh. If all this is poetic.. then disregard all my comments thus far xD

Yes, I  like that. Actually, I was thinking of a very similar sentence myself.

And as mentioned, you're missing case suffixes. :3

Blue Elf

Quote from: Sireayä mokri on June 10, 2011, 11:13:28 AM
Should be tsawkel and atanit then.
Ngaru tìyawr. You got me again, damn!
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


omängum fra'uti

Quote from: Tswusayona Tsamsiyu on June 10, 2011, 09:10:21 AM
it's fine, just the <er> shouldn't be there in general senses.
There is nothing wrong with <er> in that sense.  Even without an aspect infix, this would still likely be imperfective.  To make it more clear why, consider an alternate way to say the same thing.  (Note that I filled in the ... from the OP here.)

Trr a tsawkel ke terìng atanit mi ftem.
A day which the sun does not give light still passes.
Trr mi ftem krr a tsawkel ke terìng atanit.
A day still passes when the sun does not give light.

In the second form, it should be clear that the sun not giving light is an ongoing action during which time the day passes.  And ongoing actions or actions with internal structure are imperfective.

Also keep in mind that all verbs in Na'vi are either imperfective or perfective.  If it is not explicitly stated, that just means it is clear from context, not that it isn't one or the other.  Granted, it is often not specified as it is pretty clear from context, but it is never wrong to state aspect explicitly.

As a side note, I used "trr a luke tsawke" in the past for this.  Trr a luke tsawke lu na txon.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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