Numbers?

Started by Torukä Nari, May 02, 2010, 07:39:24 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Torukä Nari

Rutxe srung! I can't figure Dr. Frommer's Na'vi number system out. I'm fine until eight, but then I get confused. There doesn't seem to be words for nine and ten. I need to be able to write some fairly large numbers in Na'vi, but I don't know how. Irayo in advance.
<-Please click and click on all my dragons, to help them grow.

Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

The Na'vi use an octal based system so there is a 9 and a 10 just not the way you normally think of it.

http://forum.learnnavi.org/language-updates/25/

Thread about it should be near the bottom of the page.
Naruto Shippuden Episode 166: Confession
                                    Watch it, Love it, Live it

Torukä Nari

Yeah, I saw that, but it doesn't make sense! I need to write 1954, but I don't know how, and if there isn't a nine, we have a problem. So is volaw 9?
<-Please click and click on all my dragons, to help them grow.

Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

yup volaw is 9, if you don't want to take the time to learn all the numbers though you could use the number converter that we have.

http://www.learnnavi.org/navi-vocabulary/

Near the bottom.
Naruto Shippuden Episode 166: Confession
                                    Watch it, Love it, Live it

Rangtsulfätu

It's not that hard really.

Try it's basically the same as our system, but with two numbers less.

When we count we get 0 to 9 and than start over by putting a 1 in front of the digit, then 2, 3 and so on.

0  10  20  30
1  11  21  31
2  12  22  32
3  13  23  33
4  14  24  34
5  15  25  35
6  16  26  36
7  17  27  37
8  18  28  38
9  19  29  39

And so on...

In Na'vi it works the same way, except there are no 8 or 9. When counting, try to thing of vol as 10. we also don't have a word for 0 yet, but I don't think we really need one anyway.

             vol              mevol             pxevol
'aw         volaw          mevoaw         pxevolaw
mune      vomun         mevomun       pxevomun
pxey       vopey          mevopey       pxevopey
tsìng       vosìng         mevosìng       pxevosìng
mrr         vomrr          mevomrr        pxevomrr
pukap      vofu           mevofu           pxevofu
kinä        vohin          mevohin          pxevohin

And so on.
Off course, in value vol is still 8, mevol 16, and pxevol 24.

I hope this helps and doesn't confuse you further. If it does, please ignore it.
Oe skxawng lu!

Suteo plltxe san po tsun pivlltxe nìNa'vi ulte peyä ta'leng ean lu sìk. Ayoel omum nì'aw futa por syaw fko stìkx.

Torukä Nari

Oh I see. It's almost a addition/multiplication thing, depending on what numbers you're using. Irayo, that makes a lot more sense now. So, I think 1954 would be Mevopey kivol. Or possibly pxevozam puzam tsìvomun. I think.
<-Please click and click on all my dragons, to help them grow.

Uniltsamsiyu

The latter is correct:

pxevozampuzamtsìvomun is the Na'vi/Octal equivalent to 1954

kewnya txamew'itan

#7
Wolfram alpha tells us that 1954 decimal is 3642 octal so we need 3*512 + 6*64 + 4*8 + 2:

this gives us pxevozam puzam tsìvomun so your second answer is correct ma Torukä nari.
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
If you want to speak na'vi to me, friend me on facebook (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)

numena'viyä hapxì amezamkivohinve
learnnavi's

Rangtsulfätu

I don't know if it helps, but I noticed that Windows Calculator can convert to octal. Possibly other advanced calculators can too.
Oe skxawng lu!

Suteo plltxe san po tsun pivlltxe nìNa'vi ulte peyä ta'leng ean lu sìk. Ayoel omum nì'aw futa por syaw fko stìkx.

Feiane

Quote from: Torukä Nari on May 02, 2010, 09:49:29 PMOh I see. It's almost a addition/multiplication thing, depending on what numbers you're using.
Yes! I tend to think of it like this:

ten = ten
twenty = two tens = 2 * 10 = 20
twenty-four = two tens and four = 2 * 10 + 4 = 24

vol = eight = 8
mevol = two eights = 2 * 8 = 16
mevosìng  = two eights and four = 2 * 8 + 4 = 20

Click >> fìtsenge << to learn about a na'vi nì'aw game I'm hosting in a week or two. Please join!

Txepä Tsyal

Quote from: kemeoauniaea on May 03, 2010, 03:09:04 AM
Wolfram alpha tells us that 1954 decimal is 3642 octal so we need 3*512 + 6*64 + 5*8 + 2:

this gives us pxevozam puzam tsìvomun so your second answer is correct ma Torukä nari.

First, it is supposed to be 4*8, not 5*8. Second, I don't see where that octal number comes into play at all. What is the point in converting to octal when you are still using the decimal number for the translation? I guess what I am asking about is what the octal number actually represents and why it is there.
New personal modo:

'Oma Tirea

The number itself seems to be only some randomly chosen number.

Why octal?  It is because Na'vi have only four fingers on each hand, as opposed to the five that we and the Avatars have.  As a result, you count up to eight on your Na'vi fingers, and then you have no more fingers to count off of, so then you start over with vol in mind.  Hope this answers your question.

A thought to consider:  if the highest number is 77777 octal, what would come after that?  Vozazam, or is this yet another question for Karyu Pawl?

Here's another thought: what might a Na'vi base 16 number system look like written out?
[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Muzer

We now know zero, and imported words for the *figures* 8 and 9
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: Dracus_Pyrus13 on June 19, 2010, 12:16:46 AM
Quote from: kemeoauniaea on May 03, 2010, 03:09:04 AM
Wolfram alpha tells us that 1954 decimal is 3642 octal so we need 3*512 + 6*64 + 5*8 + 2:

this gives us pxevozam puzam tsìvomun so your second answer is correct ma Torukä nari.

First, it is supposed to be 4*8, not 5*8. Second, I don't see where that octal number comes into play at all. What is the point in converting to octal when you are still using the decimal number for the translation? I guess what I am asking about is what the octal number actually represents and why it is there.

All na'vi counting is octal because they only have 4 digits on each hand.

Quote from: lapo lesxkxawng on June 19, 2010, 02:24:50 AM
The number itself seems to be only some randomly chosen number.

Why octal?  It is because Na'vi have only four fingers on each hand, as opposed to the five that we and the Avatars have.  As a result, you count up to eight on your Na'vi fingers, and then you have no more fingers to count off of, so then you start over with vol in mind.  Hope this answers your question.

A thought to consider:  if the highest number is 77777 octal, what would come after that?  Vozazam, or is this yet another question for Karyu Pawl?

Here's another thought: what might a Na'vi base 16 number system look like written out?

Anything over 77777° (°  is the new official symbol for octal numbers in na'vi transcriptions and can go either side of the number) is, like numbers over 9000, so large as to be practically infinite. :P

And I doubt very much that you get dialects appearing in na'vi let alone whole new counting systems, the ikran allow them to travel much further than humans with relative ease which would reduce dialects and accents and, furthermore, the connection to Eywa and the dead would prevent significant changes happening in the language and again reduce dialects and accents. I'd say there's an almost 0 chance of some na'vi using hex.
Internet Acronyms Nìna'vi

hamletä tìralpuseng lena'vi sngolä'eiyi. tìkangkem si awngahu ro
http://bit.ly/53GnAB
The translation of Hamlet into Na'vi has started! Join with us at http://bit.ly/53GnAB

txo nga new oehu pivlltxe nìna'vi, nga oer 'eylan si mì fayspuk (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)
If you want to speak na'vi to me, friend me on facebook (http://bit.ly/bp9fwf)

numena'viyä hapxì amezamkivohinve
learnnavi's

'Oma Tirea

Quote from: kemeoauniaea on June 19, 2010, 02:44:22 AM

Anything over 77777° (°  is the new official symbol for octal numbers in na'vi transcriptions and can go either side of the number) is, like numbers over 9000, so large as to be practically infinite. :P

Right.  77777o would appear to be nìtxan tam for the Na'viyä aysìkin.

Quote from: kemeoauniaea on June 19, 2010, 02:44:22 AM

And I doubt very much that you get dialects appearing in na'vi let alone whole new counting systems, the ikran allow them to travel much further than humans with relative ease which would reduce dialects and accents and, furthermore, the connection to Eywa and the dead would prevent significant changes happening in the language and again reduce dialects and accents. I'd say there's an almost 0 chance of some na'vi using hex.

Good point with the numbers.  As far as dialects goes, it could be worse: Na'vi could be developing different languages, each of which would have at least a couple of accents, much like we have here on 'Rrta.  With all these connections via pa'li, ikran, and Eywa herself, the concept should be real simple: One language with different accents for each clan, most of which use or are based on the standard Na'vi we speak here.

For example, standard Na'vi has an e being {ɛ}, whereas Omaticayan Na'vi would have an e being {e}, or even a free-form variation bewteen ɛ and e {ɛ ~ e}.
[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Txepä Tsyal

Quote from: Muzer on June 19, 2010, 02:42:57 AM
We now know zero, and imported words for the *figures* 8 and 9

What do you mean by imported words for the *figures* 8 and 9? I thought those words were simply vol and volaw?

Quote from: kemeoauniaea on June 19, 2010, 02:44:22 AM
Quote from: Dracus_Pyrus13 on June 19, 2010, 12:16:46 AM
Quote from: kemeoauniaea on May 03, 2010, 03:09:04 AM
Wolfram alpha tells us that 1954 decimal is 3642 octal so we need 3*512 + 6*64 + 5*8 + 2:

this gives us pxevozam puzam tsìvomun so your second answer is correct ma Torukä nari.

First, it is supposed to be 4*8, not 5*8. Second, I don't see where that octal number comes into play at all. What is the point in converting to octal when you are still using the decimal number for the translation? I guess what I am asking about is what the octal number actually represents and why it is there.

All na'vi counting is octal because they only have 4 digits on each hand.

I don't see how you can get a different number when counting on only 8 fingers rather than 10. Though it would take more sets of hands to reach 1954 with 8 fingers rather than 10, wouldn't it still be 1954, not 3642?
New personal modo:

Muzer

Quote from: Dracus_Pyrus13 on June 19, 2010, 06:54:38 PM
Quote from: Muzer on June 19, 2010, 02:42:57 AM
We now know zero, and imported words for the *figures* 8 and 9

What do you mean by imported words for the *figures* 8 and 9? I thought those words were simply vol and volaw?
'eyt and nayn can be used for things like phone numbers, and when specifically referring to those digits themselves - not for anything else.

Quote
Quote from: kemeoauniaea on June 19, 2010, 02:44:22 AM
Quote from: Dracus_Pyrus13 on June 19, 2010, 12:16:46 AM
Quote from: kemeoauniaea on May 03, 2010, 03:09:04 AM
Wolfram alpha tells us that 1954 decimal is 3642 octal so we need 3*512 + 6*64 + 5*8 + 2:

this gives us pxevozam puzam tsìvomun so your second answer is correct ma Torukä nari.

First, it is supposed to be 4*8, not 5*8. Second, I don't see where that octal number comes into play at all. What is the point in converting to octal when you are still using the decimal number for the translation? I guess what I am asking about is what the octal number actually represents and why it is there.

All na'vi counting is octal because they only have 4 digits on each hand.

I don't see how you can get a different number when counting on only 8 fingers rather than 10. Though it would take more sets of hands to reach 1954 with 8 fingers rather than 10, wouldn't it still be 1954, not 3642?
[21:42:56] <@Muzer> Apple products used to be good, if expensive
[21:42:59] <@Muzer> now they are just expensive

Nìwotxkrr Tìyawn

Quote from: Dracus_Pyrus13 on June 19, 2010, 06:54:38 PM
I don't see how you can get a different number when counting on only 8 fingers rather than 10. Though it would take more sets of hands to reach 1954 with 8 fingers rather than 10, wouldn't it still be 1954, not 3642?
It's still the same amount just represented differently.
The way the we count in the decimal system is 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 then we start the next set at 10. But the way octal works is 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 then 10. 10 octal still is 8 decimal, they are the exact same value but placed in different groups.

We use groups of 10 because we have 10 fingers (It's what is most widely believed anyway) Na'vi use groups of 8 because they have 8 fingers.

I know I'm a crappy at explaining but long story short, same value number, different representation.

decimal: 1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10  11  12  13  14  15  16  17  18  19  20
octal:    1  2  3  4  5  6  7 10 11 12  13  14  15  16  17  20  21  22  23  24
Naruto Shippuden Episode 166: Confession
                                    Watch it, Love it, Live it

Vawm tsamsiyu

Octal just changes the value of the "places" instead of a tens place there's a eights place so octal 10 is decimal 8. It's a 1 in the eights place and a 0 in the ones place.  It's just a different way to show the same info.
    It wouldn't seem as wierd if we had special symbols for na'vi instead of 10 we'd see γλ then we'd that as eight and not also ten but we have to share symbols so  3642 looks like 1954 not ξσδθ

hope that makes sence
they killed the [you] tag

Mesanhì

Quote from: Rangkaryu on May 02, 2010, 08:50:42 PM
It's not that hard really.

Try it's basically the same as our system, but with two numbers less.

When we count we get 0 to 9 and than start over by putting a 1 in front of the digit, then 2, 3 and so on.

In Na'vi it works the same way, except there are no 8 or 9. When counting, try to thing of vol as 10. we also don't have a word for 0 yet, but I don't think we really need one anyway.

I hope this helps and doesn't confuse you further. If it does, please ignore it.


irayo nìtxan!! i never understood the number system until you explained it like this. nga lu apxa srung  <--(my attempt) somebody please correct me haha