people and people

[’eylan ’angtsìkä]

Na'vi = The People
tute = people

If I am translating from English and I refer to the inhabitants of Pandora, I will use Na'vi. 

If I am refering to a miscellaneous group of people (persons in the plural), I will use tute.

But what if I'm refering to an Earth people, as in "The Sami People live in the North", or "Setswana is the language of the Tswana people"?

Or perhaps a good example is "Batswana (pl) are people who belong to the Tswana people", where the first 'people' would be be tute but the second 'people' would be....?

If I used "na'vi" without capitalization, would it be understood as "a people not necessarily of Pandora"?

Iyaro

[Kemaweyan]

Na'vi = The People
tute = people

If I am translating from English and I refer to the inhabitants of Pandora, I will use Na'vi. 

If I am refering to a miscellaneous group of people (persons in the plural), I will use tute.

No, tute - that's person in singular. In plural (people) it should be sute.

But what if I'm refering to an Earth people, as in "The Sami People live in the North", or "Setswana is the language of the Tswana people"?

Or perhaps a good example is "Batswana (pl) are people who belong to the Tswana people", where the first 'people' would be be tute but the second 'people' would be....?

I think it could be sute leTswana

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

To expand a little on what Kemweyan said, the plural marker is a prefix added to nouns, namely ay+ The plus sign on some affixes indicates that the affix causes lenition, which is a way of saying, that certain first letters of the following word change when that affix is used. (See Na`vi in a Nutshell for a much more complete explanation.) In this particular case, if the first letter is T, as in tute, it becomes S. Thus ay+ and tute become aysute. Now in most cases where ay+ is used, the ay+ may be dropped (only instance of this happening that we know of), and only the lenited word remains. Thus, sute. Since Tute is a very commonly used word, a Na`vi would immediately recognize sute as the plural form of tute. You will very shortly recognize this as well, as you work with and use the language.

The dropping of the ay+ is optional, and there are cases where retaining it makes things clearer. Note that I chose to retain it in my Na`vi name, but I do occasionally use just falulukanä.

Now, on to your original question. Na`vi translates to 'the people'. What people is not specified. Thus, if you are referring to the Na`vi in 'Avatar', you would be referring to people of the Omatakaya tribe. Now, we don't have a word (yet) to describe an 'Omatakayan', thus you would need to use a more complex construction, like (ay)na`vi takip Omatakaya or more generically (tute or)sute takip Omatakaya I'm pretty sure this is correct, but others may correct me if I am not.

['Oma Tirea]

To simplify the above posts overall, I like to consider this three-way distinction:

Na'vi = People
(Ay)Sute = Persons
Tute = Person

However, Na'vi refers specifically to the blueskins, and so as Kemaweyan said, (ay)sute should be used for the peoples of 'Rrta.

[’eylan ’angtsìkä]

apologies.  using tute instead of sute was a careless mistake.

So, `Eylan Ayfalulukanä suggested that "What people is not specified", but Sxkxawng alu 'Oma Tirea maintains that "Na'vi refers specifically to the blueskins".

My concern is that when we speak in English of "a people", we would certainly refer to the Na'vi in the same way as we do other peoples.  If we say that the word "na'vi" in Na'vi can only refer to their own folks, thereby making it the equivalent of "Pandoran", are we implying that they don't accept humans as having any capacity for forming cohesive cultural identity?

I am quite clear how much difference there is between referring to "Jewish people" and referring to "the Jewish people".  There must be some way to express that difference in Na'vi, even if we don't know it yet, kefyak? 

[Tängal]

I don't think ma tsmuk. Na'vi don't have 'a' or 'the' so saying "the people" or "a people" would result in the same. Personally about inhabitants of 'Rrta I would use sawtute

[Sireayä mokri]

Personally about inhabitants of 'Rrta I would use sawtute

I think sawtute has some negative sense in it, so I would say sute referring to persons, and for people as a "nation" it would be 'Rrtayä Na'vi alu [name]. Just my opinion

[Kemaweyan]

Personally about inhabitants of 'Rrta I would use sawtute

I think sawtute has some negative sense in it, so I would say sute referring to persons, and for people as a "nation" it would be 'Rrtayä Na'vi alu [name]. Just my opinion

No.. I think Na'vi is the name of people and we can't use that for other nations.

[Sireayä mokri]

Well, Na'vi is the only "nation" on Pandora, so I think speaking Na'vi we can use it the same way as "nation". But not when speaking English, of course.

[Kemaweyan]

There is only one nation on Pandora, so Na'vi means "people" and the name of this people. I think we can use "Na'vi" only for blue-skin people from Pandora

[Sireayä mokri]

Since we don't have blue-skin people on Earth, 'Rrtayä Na'vi looks good enough to me

[Kemaweyan]

Since we don't have blue-skin people on Earth, 'Rrtayä Na'vi looks good enough to me

But only with meaning "people who can See" And it doesn't mean "nation"...

[`Eylan Ayfalulukanä]

If there were, say, green-skinned people on Pandora, they would likely be called something other than Na`vi. And those greenskins would likely have tribes or clans with their own names just like the Na`vi do. And it would not at all surprise me if the blueskins and the greenskins did not get along with each other.

Tolerance of other cultures, through history has been an exception, not a rule. If there were not the case, then there would have been little or no war. So, it does not surprise me that the Na`vi are intolerant of the sawtute. After all, they came and raped their land, and offered nothing substantive in return.

Perhaps an even more disparaging term for `Rrta people would be ketuwong.

[Sireayä mokri]

But only with meaning "people who can See" And it doesn't mean "nation"...

Well, not only Na'vi can See Even in the movie.

[Kemaweyan]

I think we can say "Na'vi" about us, but that would be pretty idiomatically. We aren't a nation, we are only the group of people who can See, people with Na'vi soul...

[Sireayä mokri]

we are only the group of people who can See, people with Na'vi soul...

Eywayä tirea mì awnga

[’eylan ’angtsìkä]

I think it's interesting that we have a clear and strong difference of opinion on whether or not the word "Na'vi" can only refer to the indigenous people of Pandora.

There have been peoples on Earth who referred to themselves as "the people".  I wonder what their experience was after encountering other cultures.

It's critical that we remember to translate meaning, not words, so I don't think the fact that Na'vi has no "a" or "the" is relevant.  In English there are two different meanings of "people": (a) the plural of person; and (b) a distinct cultural group, with the plural "peoples".  The question is how to reflect that second meaning nìNa'vi.

We are accustomed to translate "Na'vi" as "the People", but that is just a translation.  In the  real world, the test would be to explain to Na'vi what "a people" on Earth is, and then ask what they would call that.  I suppose our comparable recourse would be Dr. Frommer.

In the meantime, perhaps olo'?

[Payä Tìrol]

I think going around calling people Na'vi is basically akin to going to Pandora and calling them Humans

[Tängal]

Well, I think that division is simple. We inhabitants of 'Rrta are sawtute no matter what we do or believe and inhabitants of Pandora are Na'vi. It is just our fault that sawtute has negative meaning. So let's do something about it

[kewnya txamew'itan]

I think it's interesting that we have a clear and strong difference of opinion on whether or not the word "Na'vi" can only refer to the indigenous people of Pandora.

There have been peoples on Earth who referred to themselves as "the people".  I wonder what their experience was after encountering other cultures.

The German word "Deutsch" is ultimately derived from a word for "the people" yet they do not talk about the British people using Deutsch, there is no reason to believe the na'vi would be any different.