Short forms

[Palulukan Maktoyu]

I've noticed the many different Short forms of words
tsaw ( short for Tsa'u or that thing ), Fwa ( short for fì'u  or This thing), awnga ( short for ayoenga or We )

but i came across one today that puzzles me
as it's not in the dictionary ( which maybe cause of that it means and/or is constructed) isn't on dict-navi.com
it IS in Horen-lenavi pdf ( but with a different way of showing it leading to wonder as to the meaning )
yet is fully explained on naviteri by karyu pawl with meaning that is different then expected vs horen

in horens
page 10, 2.1.5.3
tsane (< tsaw + ne)
now this to me makes sense  says to me it's Tsaw with ne adposition.
but then i found in horen
6.18.1. Particle "A".
po tsane karmä a tsengit ke tsìme'a oel "I didn't see the place he was going to"
ok new meaning that place , tsatseng, which is in the dictionary

so i looked in the dictionary and found this
tsaw:  PF dem., pn. that, it (as intransitive subject)  Ok Paul frommer was the source, is a pronoun , means That or it. ok got it.

now here's naviteri's example.
http://naviteri.org/2012/06/spring-vocabulary-part-3/

"Tsatsenge lehrrap lu fìtxan kuma tsane ke kä awnga kawkrr.
'That place is so dangerous we never go there.'

Keep in mind that the short form tsane 'there' is used with verbs of motion: it's the place to which one goes. The full form is tsatsengne."

OK hold on
Karyu Pawl says tsane is short for Tsatsengne which would be Tsatseng+ne "torwards that place. "

i've found alot of the time if Karyu pawl puts a word up in short form like that it ends up in the dictionary.
both short and full form
but this one seems to have escaped that. AND horens has one use that suggests possibly a different meaning.

any thoughts on this or am i crazy?

[Tirea Aean]

you're not crazy.

tsa-<adp> is kinda common, I thought.

tsane, tsafpi, tsamì, etc.

It kinda is short for whatever it has to be short for. When you're using a verb of motion, tsane makes sense to be tsatseng-ne.

Thing is though, for tsane, we have only seen examples that involve motion verbs. We don't have examples of someone going to a thing.

I think of it like this:

*re-words the examples to a more normal English order*

Oel ke tsìme'a tsengit a tsane po karmä.
I didn't see the place, which, to it he was going.

^ This, at the time, was basically the answer to how we would make the statement:

I didn't see where he was going.

...without using peseng. Because peseng is a question word only.

Tsatsenge lu lehrrap fìtxan kuma awnga kawkrr ke kä tsane.
That place is dangerous so much that we never go to it.

Here, it's just clearly a shortening of ne tsatseng. as "go there". But still, in both of these cases, it looks like tsane is kinda referring back to tsatseng, or tseng.

[Tanri]

Speaking about grammar, the tsa-X words, as you see them here, ma Palulukan Maktoyu, are pronouns that are used inside the attributive subordinate clause to represent the noun the subordinate clause is connected to.

Ma Txewì, srake ngal stawm zusupa payit li? Ye'rìn ngal tsìye'a kxorit a tsateri oeng plltxe trram. - Txewì, do you hear the falling water already? Soon you'll see the waterfall we spoke about yesterday. (when two Na'vi walk through forest)

This pronoun is a shortened form of tsa'u - "that thing", which looks like tsal, tsat, tseyä, tsar when it takes case endings, but we can also use it with adpositions attached from behind - tsateri, tsane, tsafew, tsalok....

Fì'u ke tsun livu kilvan a tsafew oe spä txonam tengkrr rou. Lu sloa fìtxan! - This can't be the river I jumped across last night when I was drunk. It is so wide!

[Palulukan Maktoyu]

please tell me someone completed that dictionary of short forms hahahaha

[Tirea Aean]

please tell me someone completed that dictionary of short forms hahahaha

How many people knew that kefyak is short for "ke fìfya srak"? Yay short forms. Yeah there actually are not all that many short forms.. so a dictionary of shorts would be like a half page. Still useful though. Actually, I haven't heard of anything from that project in a while.

[Tìtstewan]

I just remember, that I have written a nice file with the colloquals words, and they contains also some short forms of words.
E.g. Palulukan -> Palukan
Edit: fìtsenge sì fitsenge

[Kemaweyan]

E.g. Palulukan -> Paluan

Palukan http://naviteri.org/2010/07/vocabulary-update/

[Tìtstewan]

Ohps, that just dropped somewhere... Irayo! Fixed!

[Palulukan Maktoyu]

downloaded , saved, digested, IRAYO!

[Tìtstewan]

Ma Palulukan Maktoyu,

An updated file:
Download

[Tìtstewan]

Ma Palulukan Maktoyu, An updated file: Download

See V0.991!

[Palulukan Maktoyu]

Ma Palulukan Maktoyu, An updated file: Download

See V0.991!

Furia fì'u amip irayo seiyi oe ngaru!