Simple sentences by Nusekx

[Nusekx]

Hi,

I thought to write in this thread some of my first sentences in Na'vi. Everyone is wellcome to correct and give some advice.

I would appreciate very much corrections written in 'trilinear gloss' because I think this way is much clearer and easier to understand. Thanks in advance and sorry for my english:

Oe txan-a taron-yu new lu
I great-ATTR hunter want to be
I want to be a great hunter

Nge-yä ikran nìwin tswon
You-GEN ikran fast fly
Your ikran flyes fast

Ayfo-l kawkrr oe-ti ts<iv>e'a z<am>a'u
They-ERG never I-ACC see<SUBJ> come<PST>
They never came to see me

Trilinear gloss: http://forum.learnnavi.org/beginners/beginner-forum-etiquette-(please-read-before-posting)/

Bye!.

Edit: 2nd sentence: Deleted: -a in nìwin. Changed: Nga-yä to Nge-yä. (Thanks Taronyu!)
3rd sentence: Changed from tse'a to ts<iv>e'a (Thanks Carborundum!)

[Carborundum]

Can't find anything wrong with the first two.

Ayfo-l kawkrr oe-ti tse'a z<am>a'u
They-ERG never I-ACC see came
They never came to see me

Here however, I think you need a subjunctive infix in 'see' to make it an infinitive.
Ayfo-l kawkrr oe-ti ts<iv>e'a z<am>a'u
They-ERG never I-ACC see<SUBJ> come<PST>
They never came to see me

[Nusekx]

Can't find anything wrong with the first two.

Ayfo-l kawkrr oe-ti tse'a z<am>a'u
They-ERG never I-ACC see came
They never came to see me

Here however, I think you need a subjunctive infix in 'see' to make it an infinitive.
Ayfo-l kawkrr oe-ti ts<iv>e'a z<am>a'u
They-ERG never I-ACC see<SUBJ> come<PST>
They never came to see me

Hi,

May I use subjunctive because see me in this context expresses hope or possibility?

Thanks.

[Carborundum]

May I use subjunctive because see me in this context expresses hope or possibility?

Subjunctive can be used for that, but that is not the case here. Subjunctive can also be used to turn a verb into its infinitive form.
For example:
Kä = go, k<iv>ä = to go
Tse'a = see, ts<iv>e'a = to see

[Taronyu]

Oe txan-a taron-yu new lu
I great-ATTR hunter want to be
I want to be a great hunter

Perfect. Note that new is a modal verb, so you don't need <iv>. Well done.

Nga-yä ikran nìwin-a tswon
You-GEN ikran fast-ATTR fly
Your ikran flyes fast

Almost. Use ngeyä: -eyä is the genitive inflection. Annoying. You don't need -a on an adverb. So:
Ngeyä ikran nìwin tswon.

Ayfo-l kawkrr oe-ti tse'a z<am>a'u
They-ERG never I-ACC see came
They never came to see me

You don't need ay- on ayfo, but it's alright. He's right, this should be ts<iv>e'a.

Didn't feel like glossing what was already almost perfect.

[Nusekx]

Ayfo-l kawkrr oe-ti tse'a z<am>a'u
They-ERG never I-ACC see came
They never came to see me

You don't need ay- on ayfo, but it's alright. He's right, this should be ts<iv>e'a.

Didn't feel like glossing what was already almost perfect.

May I use subjunctive because see me in this context expresses hope or possibility?

Subjunctive can be used for that, but that is not the case here. Subjunctive can also be used to turn a verb into its infinitive form.
For example:
Kä = go, k<iv>ä = to go
Tse'a = see, ts<iv>e'a = to see

Thanks very much for the corrections. I understand the mistakes in the first two sentences, but with the subjuntive/infinitive issue I have problems.

I have readed that you must put the <iv> subjuntive infix in the following verb of a modal verb, so here z<am>a'u becomes a modal?

If you don't want to write a long post explaining the point, please just send me to the document or thread that clarifies this.

Thanks again for your patience.
I will post more sentences here soon!

[Nusekx]

Another sentence:

Ay-oe zene fl<iv>ä mìsam ulte fìfya ay-oe-l h<ay>awnu Eywa'evengä-ti
PL-We must succeed in war and this way PL-we-ERG will protect Pandora-ACC
We must succeed in war and this way we will protect Pandora

Bye!.

EDIT: change mì tsam to mìsam and f<iv>lä to fl<iv>ä. (Thanks Carborundum!).

[Carborundum]

Looks like no one who might actually know what they're talking about is going to answer. I suppose I'll just do my best, then.
First of, IANAL (I Am Not A Linguist). Everything I know I have picked up over the course of the last few weeks on these forums and on wikipedia. Everything I say could be complete and utter nonsense.
/disclaimer

So here is my understanding of the <iv> infix:
- It's used to express possibilities, hopes and commands.
- It's used where we in English would use an infinitive form. I'm not entirely sure what precisely that entails, but one example of the infinitive form is when one verb is used in conjunction with another, as was the case in your original example 'They never came to see me'. The verbs 'come' and 'see' are used together to paint a broader picture. In English, it's obvious which word serves which purpose, due to English having non-free word order. In Na'vi however, one must specify which verb is doing what. Oe tol tsakrr oe taron (not entirely sure tsakrr can be used like that, but couldn't find anything better) for example could be either 'I run when I hunt' or 'I hunt when I run', because there is no way to determine which verb is supposed to go where. The correct way to put it would be Oe tol tsakrr oe t<iv>aron, where the <iv> means that taron is the 'second' (in English that is) verb, making the sentence 'I run when I hunt'.
-Finally, I'm positive the first two points are somehow related, but I can't figure out how.

Ay-oe zene f<iv>lä mì tsam ulte fìfya ay-oe-l h<ay>awnu Eywa'evengä-ti
PL-We must succeed in war and this way PL-we-ERG will protect Pandora-ACC
We must succeed in war and this way we will protect Pandora

Looks pretty good, a few things though:

- mì tsam. Not certain the mì adposition is proper here. My gut says it means literally 'inside', which doesn't make sense in this context. Can't find a citation for that though, so you can ignore me on this if you like.
HOWEVER, mì triggers lenition, so tsam --> sam.
- fìfya. fya is a direction, not a way to do something. EDIT: or is it? Language is lì'fya, lit. word-way. That suggests a broader usage. Could be that you're using it correctly.

Any way, I would put it
Fitsam f<iv>lä zene fpi tì-hawnu Eywa'evengä-yä
This.war succed<SUBJ> must for.the.sake.of N-protect Pandora-GEN
This war must succeed for the sake of Pandora's protection.

Not exactly what you were going for... and the genitive suffix looks weird. I think it's correct though.

[Nusekx]

Looks like no one who might actually know what they're talking about is going to answer. I suppose I'll just do my best, then.
First of, IANAL (I Am Not A Linguist). Everything I know I have picked up over the course of the last few weeks on these forums and on wikipedia. Everything I say could be complete and utter nonsense.
/disclaimer

So here is my understanding of the <iv> infix:
- It's used to express possibilities, hopes and commands.
- It's used where we in English would use an infinitive form. I'm not entirely sure what precisely that entails, but one example of the infinitive form is when one verb is used in conjunction with another, as was the case in your original example 'They never came to see me'. The verbs 'come' and 'see' are used together to paint a broader picture. In English, it's obvious which word serves which purpose, due to English having non-free word order. In Na'vi however, one must specify which verb is doing what. Oe tol tsakrr oe taron (not entirely sure tsakrr can be used like that, but couldn't find anything better) for example could be either 'I run when I hunt' or 'I hunt when I run', because there is no way to determine which verb is supposed to go where. The correct way to put it would be Oe tol tsakrr oe t<iv>aron, where the <iv> means that taron is the 'second' (in English that is) verb, making the sentence 'I run when I hunt'.
-Finally, I'm positive the first two points are somehow related, but I can't figure out how.

Ay-oe zene f<iv>lä mì tsam ulte fìfya ay-oe-l h<ay>awnu Eywa'evengä-ti
PL-We must succeed in war and this way PL-we-ERG will protect Pandora-ACC
We must succeed in war and this way we will protect Pandora

Looks pretty good, a few things though:

- mì tsam. Not certain the mì adposition is proper here. My gut says it means literally 'inside', which doesn't make sense in this context. Can't find a citation for that though, so you can ignore me on this if you like.
HOWEVER, mì triggers lenition, so tsam --> sam.
- fìfya. fya is a direction, not a way to do something. EDIT: or is it? Language is lì'fya, lit. word-way. That suggests a broader usage. Could be that you're using it correctly.

Any way, I would put it
Fitsam f<iv>lä zene fpi tì-hawnu Eywa'evengä-yä
This.war succed<SUBJ> must for.the.sake.of N-protect Pandora-GEN
This war must succeed for the sake of Pandora's protection.

Not exactly what you were going for... and the genitive suffix looks weird. I think it's correct though.

Ok, I think I understand the difference now. Thanks very much for both the correction of the sentence and the explanation of the use of the infinitive, I really appreciate this.

Greetings!

[Carborundum]

Just noticed something else. We are both putting the infix in flä in the wrong place. Infixes go between first consonant cluster and the following vowel (except for <ei> and <äng>), so it should be fl<iv>ä.

[justNaviBrother]

Just noticed something else. We are both putting the infix in flä in the wrong place. Infixes go between first consonant cluster and the following vowel (except for <ei> and <äng>), so it should be fl<iv>ä.

l<1><2><3>u - this is for simple verbs

k<1><2>am<3>e - for verbs

[Nusekx]

Just noticed something else. We are both putting the infix in flä in the wrong place. Infixes go between first consonant cluster and the following vowel (except for <ei> and <äng>), so it should be fl<iv>ä.

Thanks very much (again!) Carborundum.

I updated the last sentence with your comments.

I will try to post more sentences in the next days.