Author Topic: Despite/ even though  (Read 951 times)

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Offline Eyawng te Klltepayu

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Despite/ even though
« on: December 18, 2010, 04:21:13 pm »
Which Na'vi word can represent the word 'despite'?
Please tell me if you see mistakes in a Na'vi post of mine. It's the only way I'll learn. :P

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Offline Eyawng te Klltepayu

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Re: Despite/ even though
« Reply #1 on: December 18, 2010, 04:29:46 pm »
Superfluous verbiage?
Please tell me if you see mistakes in a Na'vi post of mine. It's the only way I'll learn. :P

Kan oe trro fnivan lì'fyat leNa'vi frapoto a foru ke sunängu rel arusikx alu Uniltìrantokx.

Offline Eyawng te Klltepayu

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Re: Despite/ even though
« Reply #2 on: December 18, 2010, 04:38:27 pm »
Oh wait, I could use hufwa. Silly of me to ask!
Please tell me if you see mistakes in a Na'vi post of mine. It's the only way I'll learn. :P

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Offline Kì’onga Vul

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Re: Despite/ even though
« Reply #3 on: December 23, 2010, 12:37:13 am »
Whoa, multiple personalities? :P

Anyway, I noticed in Pawl's story/listening exercise (here in Prezi form: http://prezi.com/w8x5dculrb_t/navi-lesson-9/) that hufwa is used a little differently than in English.
He says:

Hufwa lì'u pam hek nì'it slä ayeveng nìwotx tsolun tsilvam.
Although the pronunciation was a little strange, (but) the children had all understood.

Whereas in English, the structure "Although..., but..." is considered redundant, it doesn't seem to be in Na'vi.  I can't tell you whether it's necessary to include the slä when you use hufwa, but it certainly is correct.  (Someone more advanced may be able to clarify.)


(Also, Chinese has a similar structure: 虽然。。。,可是。。。, again meaning "although..., but..."  In fact, many Chinese speakers learning English will form sentences like "Even though it was raining but I still went to the store.")
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Offline Ataeghane

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Re: Despite/ even though
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2010, 08:03:40 am »
But is there any structure for despite / in spite of? How can I say: 'he went in spite of the rain'?

Oer wivìntxu ngal oey keyeyt krr a tse'a sat. Frakrr.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Despite/ even though
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2010, 09:26:21 am »
I just read a post

Whoa, multiple personalities? :P

Anyway, I noticed in Pawl's story/listening exercise (here in Prezi form: http://prezi.com/w8x5dculrb_t/navi-lesson-9/) that hufwa is used a little differently than in English.
He says:

Hufwa lì'u pam hek nì'it slä ayeveng nìwotx tsolun tsilvam.
Although the pronunciation was a little strange, (but) the children had all understood.

Whereas in English, the structure "Although..., but..." is considered redundant, it doesn't seem to be in Na'vi.  I can't tell you whether it's necessary to include the slä when you use hufwa, but it certainly is correct.  (Someone more advanced may be able to clarify.)


(Also, Chinese has a similar structure: 虽然。。。,可是。。。, again meaning "although..., but..."  In fact, many Chinese speakers learning English will form sentences like "Even though it was raining but I still went to the store.")

I speak Chinese also, that's really 可是/但是/然而/... , meaning but, in although sentences. But not in English.

I found that the two versions of translation are not the same.

In the one by Le'eylan, it is
Lolu toktor Kìreysì karyu asìltsan ulte poe tsolun nìNa'vi pivlltxe. Hufwa lì'u pam hek nì'it slä ayeveng nìwotx tsolun tsilvam.

In the one by Unil Akawng (http://forum.learnnavi.org/naviteri/naviteri-a-listening-comprehension-exercise/), it is
Lolu toktor Kìreysì karyu asìltsan ulte poe tsolun nìNa'vi pivlltxe, hufwa lì'upam hek nì'it. Slä ayevi nìwotx tsolun tslivam.

Which of these sentences are correct?
1. Hufwa new oe tswivayon ikranhu, slä tìfmetok lu ngäzìk nìhawng.
2. Hufwa new oe tswivayon ikranhu slä tìfmetok lu ngäzìk nìhawng.
3. Hufwa new oe tswivayon ikranhu, tìfmetok lu ngäzìk nìhawng.
4. Hufwa new oe tswivayon ikranhu tìfmetok lu ngäzìk nìhawng.
5. Tìfmetok lu ngäzìk nìhawng hufwa new oe tswivayon ikranhu.
6. Tìfmetok lu ngäzìk nìhawng, hufwa new oe tswivayon ikranhu.
7. Slä tìfmetok lu ngäzìk nìhawng hufwa new oe tswivayon ikranhu.
8. Slä tìfmetok lu ngäzìk nìhawng, hufwa new oe tswivayon ikranhu.



you missed out on the context. and/or there may have been a Prezi punctuation error...


Dr. Grace was a good teacher and can speak Na'vi, although her accent is a little strange. But the kids could understand her completely.
hufwa is part of the first sentence. hufwa doesnt start the second sentence...
« Last Edit: December 24, 2010, 09:42:39 am by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Kì’onga Vul

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Re: Despite/ even though
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2010, 01:03:24 pm »
Ah, a punctuation error makes sense!

I guess that means that a sentence using "Hufwa...slä..." would be incorrect, like "Although...but..." is in English.  Or can we not assume that?
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Despite/ even though
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2010, 01:13:46 pm »
Ah, a punctuation error makes sense!

I guess that means that a sentence using "Hufwa...slä..." would be incorrect, like "Although...but..." is in English.  Or can we not assume that?

the sentence was:

Quote from: structure paraphrasing
She is teacher although pronunciation is weird.

But children can understand
.

I am pretty sure it wouldnt make a whole lot of sense if it were

Quote
She is teacher.

Although pronunciation is weird but children can understand.

that but just doesnt seem right to me. until Frommer says that hufwa and slä form a pair like ke and kaw-, we are probably safe to assume that they dont.

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Offline Ikran Ahiyìk

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Re: Despite/ even though
« Reply #8 on: December 25, 2010, 03:41:05 am »
I don't know, both are make sense to me because I'm a native Chinese speaker..

Of course it doesn't if you translate it literally into English.
« Last Edit: December 25, 2010, 09:55:10 pm by Ikran Ahiyìk »
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Despite/ even though
« Reply #9 on: December 25, 2010, 08:13:43 am »
I don't know, both are make sense to me because I'm a native Chinese speaker..

Of course it doesn't if you translate it literally into English.

hufwehufwa

interesting. A ruling from Paul would be nice. because seeing as this structure is allowable in Earth languages, it cannot be totally dismissed as impossible or wrong...

I still have my STRONG conviction that it was simply a punctuation failure.....(because it was.) BUT this DOES raise a good question IF that kind of structure is valid. who knows... maybe it is, maybe it isnt.. :D

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Offline MIPP

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Re: Despite/ even though
« Reply #10 on: December 25, 2010, 08:59:48 am »
I don't know, both are make sense to me because I'm a native Chinese speaker..

Of course it doesn't if you translate it literally into English.

hufwehufwa

interesting. A ruling from Paul would be nice. because seeing as this structure is allowable in Earth languages, it cannot be totally dismissed as impossible or wrong...

I still have my STRONG conviction that it was simply a punctuation failure.....(because it was.) BUT this DOES raise a good question IF that kind of structure is valid. who knows... maybe it is, maybe it isnt.. :D

We certainly know that James Cameron wanted a language that wasn't absolutely based in European languages, so, it might be correct. BUT as long as there is no rule from Frommer, we can't be sure. Maybe one could e-mail him?  ::)
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Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
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Offline Ikran Ahiyìk

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Re: Despite/ even though
« Reply #11 on: December 25, 2010, 09:54:56 pm »
I don't know, both are make sense to me because I'm a native Chinese speaker..

Of course it doesn't if you translate it literally into English.

hufwehufwa

interesting. A ruling from Paul would be nice. because seeing as this structure is allowable in Earth languages, it cannot be totally dismissed as impossible or wrong...

I still have my STRONG conviction that it was simply a punctuation failure.....(because it was.) BUT this DOES raise a good question IF that kind of structure is valid. who knows... maybe it is, maybe it isnt.. :D
Hey why I typed it hufwe :P

Edited
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


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