my pronoun tables

Started by leke, October 26, 2011, 05:46:36 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

leke


Tirea Aean

You've mixed up inclusive and exclusive across the board. INCLUSIVE is INCLUDING the person being spoken to (nga) which mean that the INclusive forms have ng in them. the EXclusive forms are the opposite. they do not have the ng in it from nga.

For possessive, it should be

SingularDualTrialPlural
peyämefeyäpxefeyäayfeyä / feyä

sneyä is sort of in the same category as peyä. sneyä meaning his/her own, and peyä means his/her [speaking about another, different person].

and again for the "possessive pronouns" replace sneyä with peyä and then ayfeyä/feyä

pum sneyä means "his/her own [one] / his/hers"

Seze Mune

Wou, that's interesting!  I didn't even know there was a sneyä!

Ikran Ahiyìk

sneyä shouldn't in that position...

both po and sno are 3rd person, where sno particularly represents a mentioned person,
something like

     Pol sneyä tskoti tatep.   He lose his own bow.   ~ the two "he" is the same person
     Pol peyä tskoti tatep.   He lose his ("her" maybe) bow.   ~ different persons involved
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


See the new version with fingerings!
Avatar credits to O-l-i-v-i.

leke

Thanks. A little tricky, but I think I get it :D
So, I guess the third person in the two possessive tables needs an inclusive/exclusive split?
Like...
3rd per. inclusive = owners.
3rd per. exclusive = belonging to somebody else.

Blue Elf

No - inclusion/exclusion occurs only in first person. Sno is something like reflexive form of po, always refers to single person:
Pol 'olem peyä wutsot - he cooked his (someone else's) meal
Pol 'olem sneyä wutsot - he cooked his own meal
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Seze Mune

Irayo for the clarification, ma Blue Elf.  It helped me as well.   ;)

'Oma Tirea

Also, don't forget about fko and fkeyä, the indefinite pronoun ;)

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

leke

Quote from: Blue Elf on October 27, 2011, 04:47:10 PM
No - inclusion/exclusion occurs only in first person. Sno is something like reflexive form of po, always refers to single person:
Pol 'olem peyä wutsot - he cooked his (someone else's) meal
Pol 'olem sneyä wutsot - he cooked his own meal
So the reflexive form of po is like a reflexive pronoun?
Pol 'olem sneyä wutsot -- He cooked himself a meal.

...and how about...
Ayfol 'olem sneyä wutsot -- They cooked themselves a meal.

Thanks.

Blue Elf

Something like, but not literally (well, my English is probably not fully correct):
Pol 'olem sneyä wutsot -- He cooked a meal for himself.
Ayfol 'olem sneyä wutsot -- They cooked a meal for themselves.

In common:
Po X peyä Y => He do X on someone's Y (not his own)
Po X sneyä Y => He do X on his own Y
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Carborundum

Does sneyä not have plural forms? I can't recall.
We learn from our mistakes only if we are made aware of them.
If I make a mistake, please bring it to my attention for karma.

Blue Elf

It has singular only, AFAIK
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


leke

Quote from: 'Oma Tirea on October 28, 2011, 12:35:18 AM
Also, don't forget about fko and fkeyä, the indefinite pronoun ;)
Care to give an example :P

Thanks.

leke

Quote from: Carborundum on October 31, 2011, 10:13:38 AM
Does sneyä not have plural forms? I can't recall.
From Na'vi in a Nutshell...
QuoteLanguage Note #3.11: The possessive pronoun sneyä is used only (for now at least)
with the third person singular and plural to mean his/her/their own.

Blue Elf

Horen leNa'vi:
Quote3.2.2.8. The reflexive pronoun sno is not altered for number.
See also 3.2.2 - it lists singular only
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


'Oma Tirea

Quote from: leke on November 01, 2011, 02:25:00 AM
Quote from: 'Oma Tirea on October 28, 2011, 12:35:18 AM
Also, don't forget about fko and fkeyä, the indefinite pronoun ;)
Care to give an example :P

Thanks.

It functions like any other singular pronoun:

Fko sì fkeyä tukru zene frakrr txur livu.

It could be oe, nga, or po.

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Blue Elf

... or also indefinite subject:

Fko plltxe san Tìyawnìl 'ärìp ayramit sìk
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tirea Aean

#17
AFAIK, generally, fko is used to translate something written in the passive voice. Otherwise, it has major overlap with 'awpo, which is a word that NObody seems to use for some reason.

EDIT: Here is the Pronoun table as seen in Horen Lì'fyayä leNa'vi: