Author Topic: The palulukan's embrace  (Read 2142 times)

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Offline Seze Mune

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The palulukan's embrace
« on: November 02, 2011, 11:14:52 am »
[Modnote: This topic was split from /intermediate/the-dictionary-part-ii]

I noticed this on the blog, and it should have a small correction in the dictionary anyway: "embrace" is not a noun and shouldn't be used to describe sämyam.



The definition is from naviteri and correctly applied in this case, as embrace does have a noun form.

As in, "You cannot escape from the palulukan's embrace," however you'd say that in Na'vi.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2011, 08:27:52 am by Tirea Aean »

Offline Plumps

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The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #1 on: November 02, 2011, 01:34:22 pm »
As in, "You cannot escape from the palulukan's embrace," however you'd say that in Na'vi.

Ke tsun fko ’ivawnìm sämyamti palulukanä ???

;D

Offline Seze Mune

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The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #2 on: November 02, 2011, 01:44:14 pm »
As in, "You cannot escape from the palulukan's embrace," however you'd say that in Na'vi.

Ke tsun fko ’ivawnìm sämyamti palulukanä ???

;D

Wou, txantsan!  Irayo, ma Plumps!   ;D

Offline Kamean

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The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #3 on: November 02, 2011, 02:25:25 pm »
As in, "You cannot escape from the palulukan's embrace," however you'd say that in Na'vi.

Ke tsun fko ’ivawnìm sämyamti palulukanä ???

;D

Wou, txantsan!  Irayo, ma Plumps!   ;D
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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #4 on: November 02, 2011, 10:22:06 pm »
I noticed this on the blog, and it should have a small correction in the dictionary anyway: "embrace" is not a noun and shouldn't be used to describe sämyam.



The definition is from naviteri and correctly applied in this case, as embrace does have a noun form.

As in, "You cannot escape from the palulukan's embrace," however you'd say that in Na'vi.

Ah, tìsla'tsuri irayo :) Maybe I've never really heard of nor used that form of the word.

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Offline Blue Elf

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The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2011, 02:16:24 am »
As in, "You cannot escape from the palulukan's embrace," however you'd say that in Na'vi.

Ke tsun fko ’ivawnìm sämyamti palulukanä ???

;D
probably it would be better to discuss in different thread, but I'd say:
Ke tsun fko hivum sämyamti palulukanä

your version says: "One can't avoid palulukan's embrace", so meaning is - "you can do anything you want and palulukan always catch you", what is not probably true. If you don't meet palulukan (intentionaly or by chance), you can avoid him.
My version says: "One can leave palulukan's embrace" with meaning "if you are once caught by palulukan, you are dead man". This is always true, I think (the only known exception: Jake Sully ;D)
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2011, 08:43:44 am »
Ke tsun fko hivum sämyamti palulukanä

Hum has been recently confirmed as intransitive (leave from).
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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2011, 09:27:05 am »
Then:
Ke tsun fko hivum ftu sämyam palulukanä
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Seze Mune

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2011, 11:08:47 am »
Not to hijack this thread, but merely as a comment in passing....this would be an awesome title for a story.  I may have to steal it for our LN RP!  :D 

OK, back to the thread; carry on....

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2011, 09:33:14 pm »
Having a vested interest in all things palulukan, I came up with

Ke tsun fko tul ftu sämyam palulukanä

I also came up with, before I read the thread beyond the first post,

Ke tul neto nga a ftu falulukanä sämaym

Despite Grace's advice to Jake (which I think sometimes was given because letting him become a thanator snack was a good way to be rid of him), running from a thanaor would be about the single worst thing you can do. Most predators are designed to hunt and kill best from behind. The prey cannot effectively see what is behind them, and the vulnerable neck is well exposed from behind. Most predators can also outrun their prey, at least over short distances. So, Jake was very lucky he survived at all (and had the thanator gotten him he probably would have been killed by simply being bitten through the body). Thus 'run from' is very appropriate for this sentence, and one would certainly be 'embraced' when being picked up and bitten through.

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Offline Kemaweyan

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2011, 09:55:57 pm »
Ke tsun fko tivul ftu sämyam palulukanä

 ;)

Ke tul neto nga a ftu falulukanä sämaym

Why? ???
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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2011, 02:47:11 am »
Ke tsun fko tivul ftu sämyam palulukanä

 ;)

Ke tul neto nga a ftu falulukanä sämaym

Why? ???

Isn't the a needed there to create a subordinate clause out of the second part of the sentence?
As faf as falulukan goes, I thought ftu- was a leniting adposition. The dictionary shows it isn't. But my adposition table (posted above my desk at work) may be wrong. (Update, I checked, my chart is correct, oeyä kawng....)

So, is Ke tul neto nga ftu palulukanä sämaym really correct?

(I need 40 hour days to find enough time to get my job done, and still give these conlangs the time they deserve.....)
« Last Edit: November 04, 2011, 03:20:29 pm by `Eylan Ayfalulukanä »

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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2011, 10:10:49 am »
So, is Ke tul neto nga ftu palulukanä sämaym really correct?

It is.
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Offline Plumps

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2011, 01:06:53 pm »
Could be wrong but I think the version with the a is not necessarily wrong either ;) For me this would amount to something like ‘from the palulukan’s embrace it is you who can’t run away’ … as in English, a shift in emphasis :-\

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2011, 03:23:59 pm »
Could be wrong but I think the version with the a is not necessarily wrong either ;) For me this would amount to something like ‘from the palulukan’s embrace it is you who can’t run away’ … as in English, a shift in emphasis :-\

Since tul, the main verb here, is intransitive, wouldn't ftu palulukan sämaym be the subject and nga be the object without the a? Or does a prepositional phrase not count as an argument to a verb?

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2011, 03:56:59 pm »
Could be wrong but I think the version with the a is not necessarily wrong either ;) For me this would amount to something like ‘from the palulukan’s embrace it is you who can’t run away’ … as in English, a shift in emphasis :-\
Interesting viewpoint, but I think there's missing second verb to form subordinate clause.... I'd translate your sentence as:

Nga lu 'awpo a ke tsun tivul ftu palulukanä sämaym
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #16 on: November 06, 2011, 07:13:14 pm »
Quote
Isn't the a needed there to create a subordinate clause out of the second part of the sentence?
I get: "[The] you<=={from the thanator's embrace} does not run"

I can't make sense of there being an a there unless you make the sentence to match this structure:

[NOUN] a [PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE] [VERB] [VERB]
or
[NOUN] a [VERB] [PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE] [VERB]

the only case for

[NOUN] a [PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE] [VERB]

is stuff like

  • Tute a mì utral taron. - The person in the tree hunts.
  • Tsapo a ta ayram zera'u. - That guy from the mountans is coming.

    What you wanted to say is "you don't run from the thanator's embrace."
    You don't want (in that situation) to attribute "from the thanator's embrace" to "you" as an attribute, but instead have it as just a prepositional phrase modifying the verb. no a.

    [NOUN] [VERB] [PREPOSITIONAL PHRASE]

  • Nga ke tul ftu palulukanä sämyam
« Last Edit: November 06, 2011, 07:17:25 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Seze Mune

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #17 on: November 07, 2011, 09:25:17 am »
Am I right that there is no discrete word which means 'escape'?  

Escape is a major theme in all of Cameron's movies, including 'Sanctum' and 'Titanic', not to mention 'Avatar'.  Pandora is a world populated with hunters of all types, and escape is critical for survival.  If we don't already have a word for it -and I can't find it in the LN dictionary- please, can we submit it as a request to Karyu Pawl?  How can fko escape the palulukan's embrace if you literally can't escape?

Sorry, I know this is slightly divergent from the topic, but I don't know where to put the request without making up a Na'vi sounding word and I don't feel competent enough to do that.   :'(
« Last Edit: November 07, 2011, 09:27:10 am by Seze Mune »

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #18 on: November 07, 2011, 10:27:25 am »
But you're right. We have the words for catch and capture, but not escape. ;)

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: The palulukan's embrace
« Reply #19 on: November 07, 2011, 03:35:03 pm »
Tirea, I think I understand what you are trying to say, but I don't understand it, either (if that makes any sense). Attribution is one of those things I really struggle with-- there are second and third order things at work here, where I seem to create 'perfectly understandable' sentences, but others read them completely differently. I had been working on this with Prrton, but then we both got too busy.

I agree that 'escape' is a badly needed word. But then maybe, 'escape' is not a concept that is associated with Pandoran predators  ::)

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