Author Topic: Translate assistance  (Read 1035 times)

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Offline Ikrantu

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Translate assistance
« on: March 05, 2016, 02:00:41 pm »
I am trying to translate the following verse to na'vi, Please assist me in the following:

Joshua 24:15
As for me and my household, we will serve YHWH.

Got It:

Oeri sì oeyä kelkuri, ayoe new kìte'e sivi YHWH-ru
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 04:58:25 pm by Ikrantu »

Offline Ikrantu

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #1 on: March 05, 2016, 02:05:56 pm »
I think i got the second part, Ayoe pe'un kìte'e si YHWH
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 04:24:25 pm by Ikrantu »

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #2 on: March 05, 2016, 02:16:38 pm »
Oeri sì oeyä kelkuri, ayoe new kìte'e sivi YHWH-ru
As for me and my house*, we want to serve YHWH.

^just my idea. :)

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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #3 on: March 05, 2016, 03:15:47 pm »
Wouldn't the Pandoran equivalent be Eywa?
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #4 on: March 05, 2016, 03:41:21 pm »
To keep it short: YHWH =/= Eywa in any kind. :)

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Offline Ikrantu

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #5 on: March 05, 2016, 04:23:26 pm »
There was a debate on what to use as the tetra gramaton for the navi language, although not official, Yewey, and not Eywa, was the most popular choice.

 in its true nature, they can be considered to different deities.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 04:27:10 pm by Ikrantu »

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2016, 04:33:39 pm »
OK, then. :/

Oeri sì oeyä kelkuri, Yaweyru (ayoe) kìte'e sayi.

Without the topical
Oeyä kelku sì oe Yaweyru kìte'e sayi.

''New'' is not used because the speaker will execute the action. It's beyond the will to do it.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 04:38:34 pm by Vawmataw »
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2016, 04:38:32 pm »
We could make it way shorter:

Ayoeri YHWH-ru (ayoe) kìte'e s(ay)i.
 :)

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Offline Ikrantu

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2016, 04:38:42 pm »
Oeri sì oeyä kelkuri, ayoe new kìte'e sivi YHWH-ru
As for me and my house*, we want to serve YHWH.

^just my idea. :)


Ive noticed that some verbs have the -IV-, where can i find more info on when this occurs?

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2016, 04:41:09 pm »
In the dictionary (vtrm. or vinm.). All verbs controled by a modal verb get the <iv> infix. :)


EDIT:
fmi     try, attempt   vtrm.
new   want      vtrm.
nulnew   prefer (ii)     vtrm.
sto    refuse (to do something)    vtrm.
may'   try, sample, evaluate, check out, testdrive   vtrm.
kan   vtrm. aim, to intend; vtr. aim, to direct a weapon or other object at a target   vtrm.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 04:45:41 pm by Tìtstewan »

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Offline Ikrantu

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2016, 04:42:10 pm »
We could make it way shorter:

Ayoeri YHWH-ru (ayoe) kìte'e s(ay)i.
 :)

so:

Oeri sì oeyä kelkuri, Ayoeri YHWH-ru kìte'e si

Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2016, 04:45:21 pm »
No double topical, please ;)
It's OK to have a pronoun without an ending case if it's the subject of an intransitive (or intransitively used) verb or the attribute of the subject.
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Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2016, 04:48:44 pm »
No.
Ayoeri YHWH-ru (ayoe) kìte'e s(ay)i.
As for we, (we) will serve YHWH.

EDIT: Ninja'd

DOUBLE EDIT: That what Vawmataw wrote. :)

TRIPLE EDIT: Yeah, we can let the topical away:

Ayoe YHWH-ru kìte'e s(ay)i.
We will serve YHWH.
« Last Edit: March 05, 2016, 04:53:11 pm by Tìtstewan »

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Offline Ikrantu

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2016, 04:54:12 pm »
I like the longer once then  :)

Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2016, 11:16:13 pm »
Another way to say this wonderful verse:

Oe sì kelku oeyä a fì'uri ayoe kìteʼe sasyi Yaweyru

-fu-

Ayoe kìteʼe sasyi Yaweyru furia oe sì kelku oeyä

Notice the use of two of the 'f-word' subordinators a fì'uri -sì- furia, and the use of the imperative future tense <asy>.
The topical subordinators allow an entire phrase to become topical without having to mark all nouns or awkward nouns as topical.
The second form is not quite as gramatically correct as the first, but is useful if you want to emphasize one portion of the sentence over the other.
At AvatarMeet 2014, K. Pawl suggested the imperative future tense infixes <asy> and <ìsy> are considerably underused

Yawey ngahu!
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Offline Vawmataw

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #15 on: March 06, 2016, 08:35:22 am »
Quote
The second form is not quite as gramatically correct as the first
It's preferable to use a gramatically correct form over anything. :)

Quote
without having to mark all nouns or awkward nouns as topical
The other option is to abandon the topical and use them as subjects.
Furia is used to nominalize an entire clause (Koren 6.18.4). Oe sì oeyä kelku is a noun phrase.
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 11:52:23 am by Vawmataw »
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #16 on: April 10, 2016, 05:59:43 pm »
Another way to say this wonderful verse:

Oe sì kelku oeyä a fì'uri ayoe kìteʼe sasyi Yaweyru


using an F word leaves me looking for at the very least a verb in the subordinate clause. Because... How can one have a subordinate clause without a verb since a clause is at its very least just a verb or subject+verb or whatever.  So a tip: whenever you see yourself using F words attributing to just a noun or a list of nouns only, something isn't right. Just use the nouns with the correct case ending!

Oeri sì oeyä kelkuri, (ayoe) kìte'e sasyi Yaweyru.

Quote
-fu-

Ayoe kìteʼe sasyi Yaweyru furia oe sì kelku oeyä

Topic-coment structure dictates that Topic noun or phrase comes first in sentence. So this would say:

Furia oe sì kelku oeyä ayoe kìte'e sasyi Yaweyru.

And then read my last comment about why this isn't right and the corrected sentence.

Quote
Notice the use of two of the 'f-word' subordinators a fì'uri -sì- furia, and the use of the imperative future tense <asy>.
The topical subordinators allow an entire phrase to become topical without having to mark all nouns or awkward nouns as topical.

That's not exactly what F words are for. Just to avoid using the same case suffix on all nouns in a list of nouns doesn't warrant using the structure which permits a CLAUSE to become a  Topic or subject or object etc. A list of nouns doesn't constitute a clause; a subject+verb at the very least does.

Quote
The second form is not quite as gramatically correct as the first, but is useful if you want to emphasize one portion of the sentence over the other.

It's weird indeed. I think what you're going for is:

Oeri sì kelkuri oeyä, ayoe kìte'e sasyi Yaweyru.
-fu-
...
There's really no other way to translate this because the original desire was to put the emphasis on the me and my household and what WE will do, regardless of what others do.

Otherwise:
Kìte'e sasyi Yaweyru oe sì oeyä kelku.
"Will serve YHWH, I and my house."

Not quite the same feel but it's a grammatically sound alternative I guess.

Quote
At AvatarMeet 2014, K. Pawl suggested the imperative future tense infixes <asy> and <ìsy> are considerably underused

This is definitely true. Whenever you're in first person and you use the future tense and it's not a prediction but rather a statement of an intention, asy and ìsy are for sure the best and only real way to go.


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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Translate assistance
« Reply #17 on: April 15, 2016, 01:34:05 pm »
Seems I missed this discussion, so I'm late, but:


Quote
Oeri sì oeyä kelkuri, Ayoeri YHWH-ru kìte'e si
No double topical, please ;)
It's OK to have a pronoun without an ending case if it's the subject of an intransitive (or intransitively used) verb or the attribute of the subject.
I don't see anything wrong here - topical can consist of more parts, so adding topical case ending to every of them is the only option. It's exactly same as for subject or object:

Mo'atìl sì Neytiril yom payoangit.
Oel tse'a yerikit sì palulukanit.
Why it should be forbidden?

Quote
Another way to say this wonderful verse:

Oe sì kelku oeyä a fì'uri ayoe kìteʼe sasyi Yaweyru

-fu-

Ayoe kìteʼe sasyi Yaweyru furia oe sì kelku oeyä
Definitely not. F-words + a (furia, fula, futa, fwa) are subordinators - they connect subordinate clause with main clause. And clause must contain verb. It is not fulfilled here - oe sì kelku oeyä is just multi-member clause element. Be careful with such constructions.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


 

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