Author Topic: Using plltxe and peng  (Read 834 times)

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Offline Blue Elf

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Using plltxe and peng
« on: May 02, 2011, 04:46:33 pm »
Hello, I'm wondering when to use plltxe and when peng.
Plltxe translates as "to speak", so it can be used in sentences like Oe plltxe hu Eytukan or Ayoe poltxe teri tìtusaron
Peng translates as "to tell" and we can say Oel poleng Neytiriru futa poe lu oeru yawne.

However, this sentence was used in the movie: Poltxe oe, san zene kea uniltìranyu, ke ziva'u fìtseng., which translates like "I have said: No dreamwalker must not come to this place." Plltxe is used here with meaning "say, tell", so I'd expect peng here.
Does it mean, that plltxe can be used also instead of peng?
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Kamean

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Re: Using plltxe and peng
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2011, 05:08:35 pm »
I'm not sure and doesn't use plltxe for tell. Maybe then there was simply no word peng and therefore use plltxe. And now it is and they are applied differently. But, maybe, it's only exception.
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Offline Tanri

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Re: Using plltxe and peng
« Reply #2 on: May 03, 2011, 05:34:02 am »
Both plltxe and peng are in the ASG dictionary, so i think they were both available at least at time when the movie was yet capable to undergo some corrections.
But compared to the entire movie, the difference between plltxe and peng is just nothing.
Making those scenes, fortunately there was no one to say: "Hey, we must do it again, because you used a word that is not entirely correct here" - in that case the movie is still in production those days. ;D

I think that the differences between them in Na'vi corresponds exactly to those in English, or another languages.
As i understand,
- "peng" is used where both the "what is being said" and "the recipients(s) of the speech" are well defined or understood from the context.
- "plltxe" is for all another opportunities, as general term for "to speak".
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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: Using plltxe and peng
« Reply #3 on: May 03, 2011, 06:24:39 am »
I think that the differences between them in Na'vi corresponds exactly to those in English, or another languages.
As i understand,
- "peng" is used where both the "what is being said" and "the recipients(s) of the speech" are well defined or understood from the context.
- "plltxe" is for all another opportunities, as general term for "to speak".
Well, I think the same, but that means that plenty of phrases are wrong :(
What is confusing, if one see EN->CZ dictionary, is that "speak" has one of its meanings same as "tell" or "say", although I can't remember any phrases where "speak" is used like "tell"...
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tanri

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Re: Using plltxe and peng
« Reply #4 on: May 03, 2011, 07:03:54 am »
I would not say "wrong", maybe "not exact" ;). These two verbs are so close in meaning, that many people actually do not recognize the difference.
Or, and this is my case, people use them just instinctively. If someone asks them why they used this instead of that, they have to think hard to describe the difference. Including the people responsible for dictionaries. ;D
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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Using plltxe and peng
« Reply #5 on: May 03, 2011, 08:58:09 am »
I really don't see a lot of difference between them. Back when plltxe was not confirmed as transitive, it seemed that the difference was in transitivity, but that's no longer the case...
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Using plltxe and peng
« Reply #6 on: May 03, 2011, 02:14:06 pm »
Well in English the use is quite different.  It would be odd to say something like...

He told, "I saw that."

But on the other hand, both of these would work...

He told me, "I saw that."
He said to me, "I saw that."

Semantically though there are several possibilities.  My favorite would be tell (peng) suggests more of a recounting of something, such as a story.  Whereas speaking is more broad.

However I've noticed that people whose roots are in different languages than English tend to use peng and plltxe different than people who came from English.  It still feels a bit odd when I see peng used as "Po peng san oel tsat tse'a", since in a direct English translation that would be my first example above.

This is a very widespread problem, we don't have much semantic context for most words outside of the English definition, but then that assumes the words carry the same semantic meaning as the English word.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: Using plltxe and peng
« Reply #7 on: May 04, 2011, 07:53:04 am »
My favorite would be tell (peng) suggests more of a recounting of something, such as a story.

Yeah, this might be the case. We've heard it used this way in oe piveng ayngaru nì'it teri Txewì.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Tswusayona Tsamsiyu

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Re: Using plltxe and peng
« Reply #8 on: May 04, 2011, 01:26:37 pm »
I think of them this way:
plltxe-talk, say
peng-tell

I think plltxe can be used as "to talk". peng is used for "to tell a story or news or something that is not just a simple sentence". and plltxe can also be used as "say" because you can say just one word.
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Re: Using plltxe and peng
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2011, 03:23:23 pm »
Fkol zene pivlltxe futa tsun piveng vurit

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Offline Ikran Ahiyìk

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Re: Using plltxe and peng
« Reply #10 on: May 05, 2011, 10:06:09 am »
I think peng is more often used with a person pointing to, plltxe is more free.
Plltxe nìhiyìk na ikran... oe fmeri sìltsan nì'ul slivu, ngaytxoa...


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