Voice which calls me

Started by Blue Elf, July 06, 2011, 02:33:33 PM

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Blue Elf

I'd like to say: "I hear a voice which calls me on" or "... calls my name".
AFAIU syaw can't be used for this purpose - it is used only in meaning "name - give sb. name", but not "call sb."
So, how to say my sentence?
I ended up with Oel stawm mokriot a peng tstxot oeyä, but it is not what I wanted to say.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tirea Aean

#1
oel stawm mokrit a oeru syaw.
I hear voice which to me calls.


EDIT:

OH. I see your point now.

Quote from: Blue Elf on July 06, 2011, 02:33:33 PM
Oel stawm mokriot a peng tstxot oeyä

Assuming syaw is only for naming poeple and calling people names, what you have is the next best thing and is my second choice.

Blue Elf

Well, that's what I was afraid of. If there is no better way of saying that, how to say the first sentence (I hear a voice which calls me on)?
Looks quite impossible as there's no similar word (like "invite"), maybe something like:

Oel stawm mokrit a peng tsata fte ziva'u oe ne po ???
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Kemaweyan

Quote from: Blue Elf on July 06, 2011, 03:54:20 PM
Oel stawm mokrit a peng tsata fte ziva'u oe ne po ???

Or just peng ziva'u which was in the movie :)

  Oel stawm mokrit a peng ziva'u oer ne po
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Blue Elf

Quote from: Kemaweyan on July 06, 2011, 03:59:57 PM
Or just peng ziva'u which was in the movie :)
In which part it was said? I can't remember...
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Kemaweyan

When Tsu'tey translates Jeke's speech to Na'vi...
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

omängum fra'uti

#6
That's "Tell the other clans to come" (Ayolo'ru alahe peng ziva'u).
However the next line is "Tell them Toruk Makto calls to them" (For peng syeraw toruk makto).

So why is it syaw can't be used this way?  I'd think TA's sentence is perfectly fine.  AFAIK Frommer has never specifically defined "syaw" as a verb "name".  That use is idiomatic, as in "Fyape fko syaw ngar", which more literally translated is "In what manner does one call to you?".

Also, while the exact semantic difference between peng and plltxe isn't entirely clear, somehow "peng" doesn't feel right there, "plltxe tstxoti oeyä" seems more correct for "speaks my name".
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Tirea Aean

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on July 06, 2011, 06:38:59 PM
That's "Tell the other clans to come" (Ayolo'ru alahe peng ziva'u).
However the next line is "Tell them Toruk Makto calls to them" (For peng syeraw toruk makto).

So why is it syaw can't be used this way?  I'd think TA's sentence is perfectly fine.  AFAIK Frommer has never specifically defined "syaw" as a verb "name".  That use is idiomatic, as in "Fyape fko syaw ngar", which more literally translated is "In what manner does one call to you?".

Also, while the exact semantic difference between peng and plltxe isn't entirely clear, somehow "peng" doesn't feel right there, "plltxe tstxoti oeyä" seems more correct for "speaks my name".

+1 and agree. thanks for source reference. ;)

Kemaweyan

Actually I don't understand a use of peng syeraw at all ??? Two verbs in a sentence and there is no -iv- :-\ How is it possible?
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tirea Aean


Kemaweyan

Quote from: Tirea Aean on July 06, 2011, 08:11:34 PM
i smell a missing san sìk

For peng san syeraw (ayngar) toruk makto? Maybe...
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Tirea Aean


omängum fra'uti

Quote from: Tirea Aean on July 06, 2011, 08:11:34 PM
i smell a missing san sìk
It seems like it, but actually it isn't.  From talking to Frommer in the past, the only missing san...sìk from that dialog was "Fpole' sawtutel 'upxaret san ayoeri tsat new, tsun mivunge".  The only change from what was originally written to what was recorded was "foru piveng" was cut down to "for peng".  Not sure the exact grammatical justification for having it said that way.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!

Plumps

The only way I can explain that to myself is the instance we had a few blog entries back with the spaw (futa) example. futa was simply left out in rapid speech.

Tell them (that) Toruk Makto is calling (them)

Would strengthen the fact of peng being a ditransitive verb (or whatever you want to call it :P )

Tirea Aean

but is it even okay to use futa when reporting speech? I thought it was always direct. so ...

has anyone been following me vs. Prrton on the 09 July meetup Q/A thread?

I think we should start a thread discussion on "verbs of speech and futa and san sìk and paraphrasing." (since basically, this here is a thread on syaw)

Blue Elf

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on July 06, 2011, 06:38:59 PM
That's "Tell the other clans to come" (Ayolo'ru alahe peng ziva'u).
However the next line is "Tell them Toruk Makto calls to them" (For peng syeraw toruk makto).
Question is - can we be sure that sentences from the movie are correct? I'm afraid not - even wiki's page with texts from the movie warns about this.
Quote
So why is it syaw can't be used this way?  I'd think TA's sentence is perfectly fine.  AFAIK Frommer has never specifically defined "syaw" as a verb "name".
Hmmm, dictionary says:
syaw: vin. call, name
Core question of this thread is, what is exact meaning of "syaw"? If "name" is not correct and we can use it as in TA's sentence, even better for me. Then, ma Tirea, isn't good idea to correct "syaw" in the dictionary?

So, to finish our discussion, is
Oel stawm mokrit a syaw oeru ne po.
correct for "I hear a voice which calls me on" ?
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Tirea Aean

I'm guessing syaw has been defined as 'to name' because we have mostly seen it used in the 'whats your name? my name is...' deal. assuming validity on Tsu'tey's lines, it skxakep should be defined simply as to call and by that definition, my strikeout sentence from page 1 would be fine.

omängum fra'uti

I'm actually not sure where the definition "To name" came from.  It was put into the dictionary sometime early August last year, but I found no comments in the dictionary thread indicating anyone bringing up that this should be done.  In its current form, I'm not sure this is appropriate for the dictionary as it is an idiomatic usage, not a formal definiton.  Frommer has never defined it that way, for sure.

Anyway, most movie dialog is suspect, but that speech I verified directly with Frommer as far as what was being said, and what liberties were taken with grammar for the sake of brevity of the script.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
Listen to my Na'vi Lessons podcast!