"What?"

Started by Kì'eyawn, August 22, 2010, 05:32:55 PM

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Kì'eyawn

Kaltxì ma eylan.  So, in English when someone doesn't understand and/or believe what you've said, you'll get the response,

"What?"

But of course, Na'vi makes this a little more complicated.  My instinct is that the Na'vi might do something like this:

If the Na'vi don't understand you correctly, i'd expect they would say, 'upe?  As in, 'Upe nga pìlmtxe?

Whereas if the "what" refers to part of what you said, you might get specificity that English lacks.  Take a look at this:

Suppose one Na'vi says, Tspolang Tsu'teyl Sawtutet.  If a second Na'vi asks, Kempe?, we know he means, Kempe Tsu'tey soli?; whereas if the second Na'vi asks, 'Upe?, we know he means, 'Upe Tsu'teyl tspolang?.  Does that seem right to you, ma smuktu?

P. S. Do we know yet if question words can take case markers (e.g., would it be *Peut Tsu'teyl tspolang)?  I've never seen it...
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Kemaweyan

#1
Yeah, I often use "peu?" for re-ask when I don't understand :) But I never think that is part of  question "Peu nga pìlmlltxe?", I use it only as interjection with meaning "I don't understand what did you say"...

And if you want to ask "What did you just say?", you must use ergative and accusative cases: "Peut ngal pìlmlltxe?", therefore short question should be "Peut?" or "'Upet?" :) But I don't know, is the verb "plltxe" transitive or not. Maybe better to use the verb "peng"? Or if "plltxe" is not transitive, it shoul be "Peuteri nga pìlmlltxe?"..
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

kewnya txamew'itan

plltxe is indeed intransitive, and peu nga pìmlltxe makes little sense, which is speaking, nga or peu? Really it would be short for "nga pìmlltxe san peu".

That said, I think, like kemaweyan that it's obvious where it's come from, it is  probably more of an interjection in its own right now.

Lastly, I think it should probably be inflected for case as normal, so when asking what Tsu'Tey killed, I'd say peut or 'upet.
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MIPP

Hum... I don't know... I truly believe that there is some idiomatic expression that we don't know yet... or maybe not  ::)
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Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

Kemaweyan

Quote from: kewnya txamew'itan on August 23, 2010, 02:52:19 AM
plltxe is indeed intransitive, and peu nga pìmlltxe makes little sense, which is speaking, nga or peu? Really it would be short for "nga pìmlltxe san peu".

Irayo nìtxan :)

Quote from: kewnya txamew'itan on August 23, 2010, 02:52:19 AM
Lastly, I think it should probably be inflected for case as normal, so when asking what Tsu'Tey killed, I'd say peut or 'upet.

Yeah, but I can ask this only if I understood least part of speech. But if I did not hear whole phrase, I ask just "peu?" :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Sireayä mokri

May be it's better to use "lì'upe" in "what did you just say"?
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Kì'eyawn

Quote from: kewnya txamew'itan on August 23, 2010, 02:52:19 AM
Lastly, I think it should probably be inflected for case as normal, so when asking what Tsu'Tey killed, I'd say peut or 'upet.

So, have we had that confirmed?  The question words do inflect for case?
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Kemaweyan

Quote from: tigermind on August 23, 2010, 10:18:22 AM
Quote from: kewnya txamew'itan on August 23, 2010, 02:52:19 AM
Lastly, I think it should probably be inflected for case as normal, so when asking what Tsu'Tey killed, I'd say peut or 'upet.

So, have we had that confirmed?  The question words do inflect for case?

I think it's obvious :) Without cases meaning can be not clear. But I can't remember Paul used this words or not...
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

kewnya txamew'itan

Quote from: tigermind on August 23, 2010, 10:18:22 AM
Quote from: kewnya txamew'itan on August 23, 2010, 02:52:19 AM
Lastly, I think it should probably be inflected for case as normal, so when asking what Tsu'Tey killed, I'd say peut or 'upet.

So, have we had that confirmed?  The question words do inflect for case?

I don't think so. It just strikes me as a natural application of the case system. As Kemaweyan rightly pointed out though, if you don't know what argument the word you didn't hear was, you couldn't do that.

Quote from: Sireayä mokri on August 23, 2010, 09:47:39 AM
May be it's better to use "lì'upe" in "what did you just say"?

This seems nicer to me than 'upe actually.
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Kì'eyawn

Quote from: Kemaweyan on August 23, 2010, 10:33:50 AM
I think it's obvious :) Without cases meaning can be not clear. But I can't remember Paul used this words or not...

Furia fì'uluke ral ke lu law mllte oe ngahu, ma Kemaweyan.  Slä oel ke tsole'änga tsat kawkrr...
I agree with you that without this the meaning is not clear, Kemaweyan.  But i have never seen it...
eo Eywa oe 'ia

Fra'uri tìyawnur oe täpivìng nìwotx...

Kemaweyan

Quote from: tigermind on August 23, 2010, 10:39:59 AM
Furia fì'uluke ral ke lu law mllte oe ngahu, ma Kemaweyan.  Slä oel ke tsole'änga tsat kawkrr...
I agree with you that without this the meaning is not clear, Kemaweyan.  But i have never seen it...

Kxawm ke lamu tìkin :)
Maybe was no need :)

Quote from: kewnya txamew'itan on August 23, 2010, 10:38:30 AM
Quote from: Sireayä mokri on August 23, 2010, 09:47:39 AM
May be it's better to use "lì'upe" in "what did you just say"?

This seems nicer to me than 'upe actually.

Then maybe better "aylì'upe"? Phrases usually consist of several words :)
Nìrangal frapo tsirvun pivlltxe nìNa'vi :D

Sireayä mokri

Quote from: Kemaweyan on August 23, 2010, 10:33:50 AM
I think it's obvious :) Without cases meaning can be not clear. But I can't remember Paul used this words or not...

I agree as well. I always see peu as 'u with marker. Therefore we still need to use case on 'u.

Quote from: Kemaweyan on August 23, 2010, 10:45:22 AM
Then maybe better "aylì'upe"? Phrases usually consist of several words :)

Sure. But "what did you just say" not always refers to a phrase.
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

omängum fra'uti

When I'm using Na'vi in conversations and I hear only part of what was said, I try to repeat what I did hear, then throw a question word in for the part I didn't.  It also helps make sure you heard the rest right, because if you repeat it wrong they can correct it.
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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MIPP

Quote from: omängum fra'uti on August 23, 2010, 02:33:11 PM
When I'm using Na'vi in conversations and I hear only part of what was said, I try to repeat what I did hear, then throw a question word in for the part I didn't.  It also helps make sure you heard the rest right, because if you repeat it wrong they can correct it.

And repeating, you also memorize some words and improve your pronounciation.
Na'vi for beginners | Dict-Na'vi.com

Hufwe lìng io pay, nìfnu slä nìlaw.
Loveless, Act IV.

burritoninja007

Alternatively, perhaps it's possible that there isn't a word for it.  The Na'vi's facial and body language are more integrated than ours and all of their communicating is done face to face.  Perhaps their version could be a puzzled look or twitching of the ears.  The closest example I could find in the movie was when Jake Sully was confessing his true mission and Neytiri responded in English "what are you saying, Jake?" though it was more for clarification rather than repetition.  Just a thought  ;D

Plumps

Confirmation on case endings on question words in an interview here. Payoang translated and that can be found somewhere in the News section.