Author Topic: Re: Wtf with fu and srak?!  (Read 774 times)

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Offline Kamean

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Re: Wtf with fu and srak?!
« on: April 05, 2011, 10:41:50 am »
I think you may use srak. Because it question marker for yes/no questions. And this is typical yes/no question.
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Offline Carborundum

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Re: Wtf with fu and srak?!
« Reply #1 on: April 05, 2011, 10:49:10 am »
First and foremost, 'are you here?' is ngal tok fìtsengit srak?.

Secondly, I'd say the second srak is unnecessary. If 'are you here or have you left?' is a single question, then a single srak, placed anywhere in the sentence, is sufficient. I would say:

 Ngal fìtsengit tok mi srake fu holum li?
 'Are you still here or have you already left?'

(Mi and li added mostly because they rhyme.)
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Offline Carborundum

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Re: Wtf with fu and srak?!
« Reply #2 on: April 05, 2011, 11:58:20 am »

so
 Ngal fìtsengit tok mi srake fu holum li srak?
would be ok?
Yes.

Quote
and dos not nga lu fìtsengro mean that you are here?
You-are-at-thisplace?
Oh, I actually didn't see the -ro in the OP. Then, hmm, yes, I think it works. But it's a rather weird and uncommon way to say it. Kind of 'I am occupying this place' is in English. The meaning is the same as 'I am here', but it's not how it's usually said.
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Offline Carborundum

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Re: Wtf with fu and srak?!
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2011, 12:15:40 pm »
So the only thin with oe lu fìtsengro is that it's uncomon? It's nothing else wrong with it? Is it?
No, it's OK.
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Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Wtf with fu and srak?!
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2011, 12:32:59 pm »
So the only thin with oe lu fìtsengro is that it's uncomon? It's nothing else wrong with it? Is it?
No, it's OK.
I think it's a little more than just rare...  Either wrong, or just bordering on it.  It's the type of things that a (theoretical) native speaker would understand fine, but would clearly mark you as a non-native speaker.  (Though for poetry or verse, I would still call it fine, as poetry tends to bend grammar rules anyway.)


so
 Ngal fìtsengit tok mi srake fu holum li srak?
would be ok?
Yes.

And if they answered "yes" would it be that they are here, or left?  Because srake is for yes/no questions.  For choices like that, we have another construct based on ftxey.

Ftxey ngal fìtsenget tok mi fuke
Are you still here or not?

Ftxey ngal fìtsenget tok mi ftxey holum li?
Are you still here, or have you already left?
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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Offline Carborundum

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Re: Wtf with fu and srak?!
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2011, 12:36:27 pm »
So the only thin with oe lu fìtsengro is that it's uncomon? It's nothing else wrong with it? Is it?
No, it's OK.
I think it's a little more than just rare...  Either wrong, or just bordering on it.  It's the type of things that a (theoretical) native speaker would understand fine, but would clearly mark you as a non-native speaker.  (Though for poetry or verse, I would still call it fine, as poetry tends to bend grammar rules anyway.)
Much like 'I am occupying this place' in English then?


so
 Ngal fìtsengit tok mi srake fu holum li srak?
would be ok?
Yes.

And if they answered "yes" would it be that they are here, or left?  Because srake is for yes/no questions.  For choices like that, we have another construct based on ftxey.

Ftxey ngal fìtsenget tok mi fuke
Are you still here or not?

Ftxey ngal fìtsenget tok mi ftxey holum li?
Are you still here, or have you already left?
Heh, that's entirely true, I completely forgot about it. I was confused by the individual clauses being yes/no questions.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 12:38:27 pm by Carborundum »
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Offline Plumps

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Re: Wtf with fu and srak?!
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2011, 12:42:30 pm »
I’m not sure ftxey can be used in that way… do we have an example from Frommer?
I always thought it would be use for whether clauses, either…or, whether…or not. Not actually a question.
???

Offline omängum fra'uti

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Re: Wtf with fu and srak?!
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2011, 12:48:02 pm »
I’m not sure ftxey can be used in that way… do we have an example from Frommer?
I always thought it would be use for whether clauses, either…or, whether…or not. Not actually a question.
???

The second part I'm a little unsure on if it would be correct or not, though I'm sure it's more likely to be correct than srake in that sentence...  When Frommer introduced ftxey...fuke, it was usable as either "whether...or not" clauses as well as direct questions.  He didn't touch on the ftxey...ftxey form of whether there though, but it seems like a logical extension.  (Then again languages aren't always logical.)

Edit: Actually come to think of it, I don't think he's ever actually told us directly about ftxey...ftxey; it just appeared in his first post on naviteri.org.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 12:51:38 pm by omängum fra'uti »
Ftxey lu nga tokx ftxey lu nga tirea? Lu oe tìkeftxo.
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