20 Questions: Seeing

[Erimeyz]

When the Na'vi look at the world around them - the physical world of Pandora which we saw in the film - what do they see that humans don't?

• What does Jake see?  Are his perceptions shaped by his avatar body or by his society (first human, then later Na'vi)?
• Do the Na'vi perceptions of the world or themselves change when they bond in tsaheylu?  If so, how?  Does it depend on who or what they bond with?
• Why do the Na'vi say "I understand your soul" by saying "I see you" (instead of "I feel you" or "I know you")?  Is there a connection between their visual perception of the world and their relationships with each other?

My purpose with this question and follow-ups is to encourage Cameron to talk about his creations (Pandora and the Na'vi) using a metaphor that comes naturally to him - visually.  I'm hoping it may give us some guidance about things like colors, but that's really incidental.  More importantly, it's an open-ended question, the answer to which will reveal what things are important about Na'vi perception and what things are important to the Na'vi about the world around them.  That will indicate what types of things we should have Na'vi words for.

I deliberately introduced contrast between Na'vi and humans in the very first question, so that Cameron will (hopefully) focus on what makes the Na'vi unique and interesting.  The Jake follow-up is an attempt to prompt further expansion on the differences between human and Na'vi and the reasons for those differences, since Jake is something of both (in two different ways).

I stressed "the physical world" in the first question in order to try to keep Cameron focused on the specifics of perception rather than getting sidetracked into generalities of how the Na'vi are one with Eywa and so forth.  We know that already.  We want details.

The tsaheylu and "I see you" questions further explore the concept of visual perception, and are themselves questions that we as Na'vi linguists would want to know (I believe).  I think they're broad enough to prompt Cameron to share a lot of information, but focused enough on the main topic that they relate well to the initial question.

Comments welcome.

 - Eri

[omängum fra'uti]

I've been taking "I see you" as a best available translation of a non-English concept, personally, not literally seeing...  Just that seeing is the closest analogy that could be used to explain it.

[Erimeyz]

I've been taking "I see you" as a best available translation of a non-English concept, personally, not literally seeing...  Just that seeing is the closest analogy that could be used to explain it.

Right, sure, that makes sense... but I'm betting that's not how Cameron sees it.  I think it means something more to him, and I want to know what that is.

  - Eri

[Kì'eyawn]

I've been taking "I see you" as a best available translation of a non-English concept, personally, not literally seeing...  Just that seeing is the closest analogy that could be used to explain it.

That may be so, but if a better translation were "I Feel you" or something like that we would expect the Na'vi in their accompanying hand-gesture to touch maybe over their hearts or something, but they don't: in the "kame-gesture" (for lack of a better word) they touch just above and between their eyes (srak? i confess i haven't seen the film in a while, and don't quite remember)

[Alìm Tsamsiyu]

I still hold that the best way to understand it in English is "I know you (on a personal level)" - as in, I know who you are, your personality, someone you've spent a lot of time with/around and you know them on a deeper level than what they show on the outside.  In this sense, you literally "see" who they really are, and judge all of their actions through that "lense" of knowledge.

I'm also willing to bet that Cameron probably used "I see you" instead of "I know you" because it could be used as more of a widespread greeting application that way (the English translation) and possibly because "kame" (whether or not Cameron invented that word I don't know) can be used for more than just "deep knowledge."

[Skyinou]

The word "see" has also a better point here. It common for everyone. with your eyes close, you can't see. And it's even more powerful thinking of Jake comming to Pandora. Think of his first time seeing the beautifulness of Pandora (when Neytiri save him), that's the first time he begin to "see" this world. I believe it's the same "kame" that Na'vi would use for a person or the world, Eywa, etc.. If Cameron used "know" of course you can learn, but that has not the same strength. It make sense becoming a greeting among Na'vi, as they are honest and all, they see really each others everyday. Don't think the film is lightly done. Why do you think the film begin with Jake opening his eyes and finish the same? 

[Erimeyz]

I know there are plenty of ways to explain "I see you"; that's not the point.  The point is to hear Cameron's explanation.

  - Eri

[Skyinou]

Of course, but only this way we can make the questions more effective. Speaking about them, turning them in any ways we can, and trying to answer them ourself to see if they are easy to answer, and in each way we can precise them or make them less precise to keep a place for Cameron imagination

[Erimeyz]

True enough.  Discuss away!

  - Eri