Author Topic: family, other relations  (Read 1707 times)

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Offline Kì'eyawn

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family, other relations
« on: March 03, 2010, 07:48:11 pm »
enemy -- we have friend, after all

And then, i don't know that Karyu Pawl will be able to answer this without James Cameron's help, but i'd like to know more family words for Na'vi--we have the basics, mother/father, brother/sister, son/daughter...  But many cultures--especially ones with a strong emphasis on clan structure--have many words for siblings (e.g., differentiating older brother vs. younger brother), lots and lots of different words for aunt and uncle (e.g., father's older brother, father's younger brother, mother's older brother, mother's younger brother...).  Cousins?

Is there a master/apprentice relationship among the Na'vi--particularly between the Olo'eyktan/Tsahìk and the people who will ultimately take their place (so, for example, is there a word for the relationship between Eytukan and Tsu'tey)?
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Offline Skxawng

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #1 on: March 08, 2010, 09:52:38 pm »
So looking through the wiki list for family, we're missing some stuff.

Aunt

Uncle


Neice, Nephew - one root word needed, gender suffix will take care of the rest

Granddaughter / Grandson

Grandfather / Grandmother

Great-Grandfather / Great-Grandmother

Cousin

Stranger - A person of unknown origin - as in meeting someone in the forest you don't know, as opposed to 'alien'


Godfather - Should the father die, the secondary-father

Godmother - Should the mother die, the secondary-mother

Nanny
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 09:14:43 am by Skxawng »


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Offline Makxarrios

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #2 on: March 09, 2010, 02:19:24 am »
So looking through the wiki list for family, we're missing some stuff.

Aunt

Uncle


Neice, Nephew - one root word needed, gender suffix will take care of the rest

Granddaughter / Grandson

Grandfather / Grandmother

Great-Grandfather / Great-Grandmother

Cousin

Stranger - A person of unknown origin - as in meeting someone in the forest you don't know, as opposed to 'alien'


Godfather - Should the father die, the secondary-father

Godmother - Should the mother die, the secondary-mother

Nanny


In Chinese, we have a different name for the parents of mother and the parents of father.
the differece is actually adding a "外"(as a prefix, i think) in front of "grandpa" or "grandma"
the meaning of "外" is something like "outer". and we add the "outer" for parents of mother. for parents of father, just grandpa and grandma.

There's so much other difference between the western and chinese. if you want to know plz ask me and i'll explain to you if i know about that.
« Last Edit: March 09, 2010, 02:32:09 am by Makxarrios »

Offline Carborundum

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #3 on: March 09, 2010, 04:48:28 am »
Lots of languages distinguish between maternal and paternal grandparents. Swedish does, and for once the system is super simple. Maternal grandmother is "mormor", literally mother-mother, paternal grandmother is "farmor", father-mother. And on it goes.
(The simplicity of this system is balanced by our ridiculously complex cousin system, with every step of the cousin-ladder having it's very own, completely irrational word)
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Offline Kì'eyawn

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #4 on: March 09, 2010, 09:09:38 am »
Turkish does this also, taking it to the extreme:  Turkish differentiates between maternal/paternal aunts and uncles, and then differentiates between people who are aunts/uncles by blood (i.e., your parents' siblings) and aunts/uncles who are the spouses of blood relatives--and, then, i think it also still differentiates between maternal and paternal.

If that sounds as confusing as is to me reading it, examples might be in order:
Father's brother
Father's sister
Father's brother's wife
Father's sister's husband
Mother's brother
Mother's sister
Mother's brother's wife
Mother's sister's husband

If any Turkish-speakers want to add to or correct this, please feel free.  I don't have a solid grasp on all the different familial distinctions Turkish makes.
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Offline Terìran Tawka

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #5 on: March 09, 2010, 02:00:57 pm »
Maybe a word describing close relationship (not necessarily within the family)?

close to sbd – intimate, important (adjective)
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Offline 'eylan na'viyä

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #6 on: March 09, 2010, 02:45:50 pm »
kinsman

orphan - na'vi or animal or both
adopt - adopt an orphan

Offline tsrräfkxätu

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #7 on: March 09, 2010, 03:49:10 pm »
I guess these belong here.

B list:
to be pregnant, to be with child
to give birth, to have a baby (could be the same verb as yield fruit – that would be so Na’vi)
to be born, to come to the world
a baby, a newborn

C list:
to beget, to sire
a fetus, an unborn child
to carry a child in the womb*
to nurse, to breastfeed*
to nurse, to suckle*
the breast milk, the mother's milk*


* These might not be applicable.
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Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #8 on: March 09, 2010, 03:58:28 pm »
So looking through the wiki list for family, we're missing some stuff.

Aunt

Uncle


Neice, Nephew - one root word needed, gender suffix will take care of the rest

Granddaughter / Grandson

Grandfather / Grandmother

Great-Grandfather / Great-Grandmother

Cousin

Stranger - A person of unknown origin - as in meeting someone in the forest you don't know, as opposed to 'alien'


Godfather - Should the father die, the secondary-father

Godmother - Should the mother die, the secondary-mother

Nanny


Neytiri called the last Toruk Makto - My Grandfather's Grandfather.  There maybe a need for a clear root for grandfather's and grandmothers as a plot element in the continuing story of the films.  This would be a great word to have.  I think the priority should be A list.
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Offline Diegetes

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #9 on: March 09, 2010, 06:08:32 pm »
I’m adding three words which, I hope, might be connected with Na’vi tribal system.

Hunting team/unit (n.) – Na’vi probably can hunt in group. Firstly I was thinking about the word that would refer to their numbers (something like Roman centuria). They would divide themselves in eights, sixteens etc. But I recalled tsampongu and I’ve constructed *tìtaronpongu (>*tìtarompongu). I doubt if it’s correct.

Ally
(v.) Na’vi clans allied with each other.
(n.) Ancient Greek has σύμμαχος – “someone who fights together with you”, “brother in arm” ;). Συμμαχία then means alliance, “fighting together”.
Lamu oeru unil a leiu Na'vi oe. Ke Tsetay. Ke new oe Tsetay livängu ta set.

Offline Utrayä Mokri

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #10 on: March 11, 2010, 11:59:48 pm »
Turkish does this also, taking it to the extreme:  Turkish differentiates between maternal/paternal aunts and uncles, and then differentiates between people who are aunts/uncles by blood (i.e., your parents' siblings) and aunts/uncles who are the spouses of blood relatives--and, then, i think it also still differentiates between maternal and paternal.

If that sounds as confusing as is to me reading it, examples might be in order:
Father's brother
Father's sister
Father's brother's wife
Father's sister's husband
Mother's brother
Mother's sister
Mother's brother's wife
Mother's sister's husband

If any Turkish-speakers want to add to or correct this, please feel free.  I don't have a solid grasp on all the different familial distinctions Turkish makes.

As a native Turkish speaker, i can say that is totally true. We have different names for maternal and paternal relatives.

They are:
"Anne" for Mother,
"Baba" for Father,
"Amca" for Father's brother
"Hala" for Father's sister
"Dayı" for Mother's brother
"Teyze" for Mother's sister
"Yenge" for Mother's brother's wife and Father's brother's wife
"Enişte" for Mother's sister's husband and Father's sister's husband
"Gelin" for son's wife,
"Damat" for daughter's husband,

Also:

"Babaanne" for Father's mother
"Anneanne" for Mother's mother
"Dede" for Mother's and Father's father,
"Torun" for child of a child (grandchild)
"Kaynana or Kayınvalide" for husband's or wife's mother,
"Kaynata or Kayınbaba" for husband's or wife's father,
"Kayınbirader" for husband's or wife's brother,
"Kuzen" for cousin (i think it's loaned from Eng.)
"Birader" for brother (i think this is loaned from Eng. too) (also it is using in general too, like Yo! Brotha)
"Bacı" for sister, (also it is using in general too, like Yo! Sista)
"Ağabey" for big brother,
"Abla" for big sister,
"Kardeş" for little brother and sister,
"Kayın" for husband's brother,
"Görümce" for husband's sister,
"Kayınço" for wife's brother,
"Baldız" for wife's sister,

Let's make it more complicated :)

"Elti": Two brother's wifes are "ELTİs" of eachother.
"Bacanak": Two sister's husbands are "BACANAKs" of eachother.



« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 01:09:04 am by Utrayä Mokri »
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Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #11 on: March 12, 2010, 12:29:30 am »
Turkish does this also, taking it to the extreme:  Turkish differentiates between maternal/paternal aunts and uncles, and then differentiates between people who are aunts/uncles by blood (i.e., your parents' siblings) and aunts/uncles who are the spouses of blood relatives--and, then, i think it also still differentiates between maternal and paternal.

If that sounds as confusing as is to me reading it, examples might be in order:
Father's brother
Father's sister
Father's brother's wife
Father's sister's husband
Mother's brother
Mother's sister
Mother's brother's wife
Mother's sister's husband

If any Turkish-speakers want to add to or correct this, please feel free.  I don't have a solid grasp on all the different familial distinctions Turkish makes.

As a native Turkish speaker, i can say that is totally true. We have different names for maternal and paternal relatives.

They are:
"Anne" for Mother, = sa'nok
"Baba" for Father, = sempu

"Amca" for Father's brother
"Hala" for Father's sister
"Dayı" for Mother's brother
"Teyze" for Mother's sister


"Yenge" for Mother's brother's wife and Father's brother's wife
"Enişte" for Mother's sister's husband and Father's sister's husband
"Gelin" for son's wife,
"Damat" for daughter's husband,

Also:

"Babaanne" for Father's mother
"Anneanne" for Mother's mother
"Dede" for Mother's and Father's father,
"Torun" for child of a child (grandchild)
"Kaynana or Kayınvalide" for husband's or wife's mother,
"Kaynata or Kayınbaba" for husband's or wife's father,


"Kayınbirader" for husband's or wife's brother,
"Kuzen" for cousin (i think it's loaned from Eng.)

"Birader" for brother (i think this is loaned from Eng. too) (also it is using in general too, like Yo! Brotha) = smukan
"Bacı" for sister, (also it is using in general too, like Yo! Sista) = smuke


"Ağabey" for big brother,
"Abla" for big sister,
"Kardeş" for little brother and sister,
"Kayın" for husband's brother,
"Görümce" for husband's sister,
"Kayınço" for wife's brother,
"Baldız" for wife's sister,

Let's make it more complicated :)


"Elti": Two brother's wifes are "ELTİs" of each other.
"Bacanak": Two sister's husbands are "BACANAKs" of each other.


That's all (i guess ;D. As a native Turkish speaker, it's really hard to keep all in mind. At least i can remember for those ;D)

I color coded those, overall, I think they are a good method to name Na'vi Family relations.  Some we have words for, more or less.
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Offline Utrayä Mokri

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #12 on: March 12, 2010, 01:09:31 am »
Also, Türkçe's grammar is very similar to Na'vi grammar. Both have free word order. For example:
I am going to school = "Ben okula gidiyorum", "Okula gidiyorum ben" or "Gidiyorum okula ben" have same meanings.
Are you a teacher? = "Sen öğretmen misin?" or "Öğretmen misin sen?" are the same.

So, then maybe we can use the system in Turkish for creating new words like adding words to eachother.
For mother's mother we use Anneanne and for father's mother it's Babaanne.

Edit: Sempulsa'nu or Sempuläsa'nuand Sa'noksa'nu or Sa'nokäsa'nu. Sounds cool to me :D
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 04:18:01 pm by Utrayä Mokri »
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Oel tsati omum nìngay san Utral Aymokriyä sìk, slä oe zamup mì tìyawn plltxea Neytiriyä na san Utrayä Mokri sìk.

Offline wm.annis

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #13 on: March 12, 2010, 07:39:59 am »
This one seems like a "20 Questions" topic, really.  What sort of kinship system the Na'vi have must be a decision for Cameron, I think.
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Offline Utrayä Mokri

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #14 on: March 12, 2010, 10:17:18 am »
Kehe, kehe..

I was just thinking loud. It was not some kind of suggestion or decide anything. I was just doing brain storming. Na'vi doesn't need to be look like any languages after all.

Thanks.
« Last Edit: March 12, 2010, 10:18:59 am by Utrayä Mokri »
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Oel tsati omum nìngay san Utral Aymokriyä sìk, slä oe zamup mì tìyawn plltxea Neytiriyä na san Utrayä Mokri sìk.

Offline Txur’Itan

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Re: family, other relations
« Reply #15 on: March 12, 2010, 03:07:35 pm »
This one seems like a "20 Questions" topic, really.  What sort of kinship system the Na'vi have must be a decision for Cameron, I think.

Good idea.

Kehe, kehe..

I was just thinking loud. It was not some kind of suggestion or decide anything. I was just doing brain storming. Na'vi doesn't need to be look like any languages after all.

Thanks.

I think it makes for a worthy question.  And if words come from it, it is prioritised.  ;D
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