Do You See Na'Vi Going Anywhere?

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Oh Eywa, please let's not start a cult! At most we can have respect for Eywa in the same sense that's she's Gaia, Mother Earth, but no shrines for actual people!

[Na'viyä Tsamsiyu]

Ya, we definately dont need another religion to deal with.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Let's kidnap him and make him create more words.

Kiyevame, Eywa ngahu int.

LOLOLOL!!! 

Hey . . . that is actually a good idea! 

[bagget00]

)

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Kidnap, fine, just no shrines!

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Well, for better or worse ma aysmukan sì aysmuké (hopefully that says brothers and sisters)

I have been observing the pulse of the pagan community. What Star Wars was for computer nerds (er . . . like me) Avatar may become for pagans. Harry Potter, a much less realistic, but more "hopeful" film, created an insane fanbase that has changed the terminology of pop-culture pagans. I see Avatar as more of a LoTR phenomena, as it is more epic, sweeping in concept, and so woefully sad. Harry Potter is about kids growing up in magical Disneyland. Avatar is about the near destruction of a nature-centered world (sequel guess: living brain) by capitalist-scum corporate conquistadors. This is a tale of the free-market enterprise being unregulated. The layers of meaning in this tale are too deep for most of the public to fathom, much less WANT to care about. JC hit all the warning sirens. That is sure to pick up a few extra fans among environmentalists, pagans, and sci-fi romantics, but other than "a beautiful paradise," the concept is anathema to public discourse.

That leaves the hard-core base, and the people who eat this stuff up are the fairy-tale believing pagans. I know this. I teach metaphysics. I write books on the subject. IMHO the second movie will make or break the Avatar cycle. It will just have to be a really good story. No Jar Jars, no (expletive)ing midichlorians, no "cute little boys who grow up to be Darth Vader played by horrible actors." In the meantime, of course everyone loves the film and the site. The movie has been out two weeks and a day. Wait 6 months, when everyone is at the beach, or Iron Man 2 comes out. To keep the interest strong in Na'vi pre-sequel, there will have to be "easy guides" (home made) through video, print (PDF), and mp3. Sales of the video game might help as well, but learning the language is a LOT harder and less seductive then beating "level 10" on xbox, or signing up for WoW and tossing "Mister T" mohawk grenades at people.

Klingon had years, decades, of fan-boy support. Hell! I watched the old TV shows religiously growing up (for you youngins' "the old TV shows does NOT mean Next Gen or DS 9). I remember the original Space Seed ("Superior ability breeds superior ambition."      -- Spock referencing Khan Noonian Singh, stardate 3141.9). And Klingon has decades of conventions where the original (O.G.) cast showed up in costume. Avatar will probably have none of this.

But, we do have one thing that no Trekkie has ever had:

Women! (a date)

Okay, that was a bit harsh. But it is funny.

We have female fans learning, eager to learn, Na'vi. Pagans want to use it in ritual (oh boy, here we go with the temples . . .) and while we will need, at some point a book on Na'vi language--simple guides officially published through "the proper channels," I happen to know a little about publishing, having already published 5 books, all of which (except one--dammit!) have sold very well, and continue to help pay my rent.

FOX wants to make m-o-n-e-y. They love the spin-off market. That is where the real money is anyway. A **smart** tribe of elders here would keep busy helping the children. ("whaaa!" <--that is me crying like a baby that i don't understand _____. You will probably hear it daily.) They will know the way forward is TO DO THE WORK FOR FOX. Do you really think some jackass in marketing can write a better book than YOU? How much ***ing brain power do we collectively have here, all bent towards helping people "spread the good word about Na'vi"? By the way, I think Rupert Murdoch BOUGHT Random House. hmm . . . books anyone?

Granted, tens of thousands of members at this site will be a good figure to toss out to the bean counters, but more than that. Over the next 6 months, even with limited resources (um . . . like "words") we can make HUGE progress. Just look at all of the complicated PDFs we have here already. If they can be shaped into "fun to read" entertaining and educational guides to "everyday Na'vi language" or "Na'vi words you can use in every day situations" (see? two book titles already!) such as "Hey baby, wanna sreu?" (expect to get slapped using that line), or "5 ways to call your boss a moron to his face."

Wow! I sound like a Cosmo cover--er . . . not that I read--or even look at "chick" magazines.

Anyway, I see Na'vi having some distinct advantages over Klingon, but Klingon did not "make it" because of corporate support. I was built on the backs of hard-core fans who showed up at conventions, who emailed each other. They DID THE JOB FOR THE CORPORATE TYPES (who, um, actually got paid lots of money). They built a language and a society because they had a passion that is no stronger than yours. They had no (of very few) women--and where women go, men WILL follow--and you have a far more beautiful language. Elvish came out when there was no "Internet," to help support each other. You have the tools, the timing, the allies, and the resources. Among us are members of most professions, and more are coming. It is eminently possible to do this--but you have to believe. We are already inclusive, and most of all we have the support network established, and growing. By the time Av2 comes out, this, and other sites can be linked and ready to rock and roll. "In the pipe, five by five." I think you get what I am getting at. "It's not your job to die for you country! It's your job to make the other poor sunufabitch die for his country!"

Oopsie!   I motivated myself so much I slipped into Patton mode.

Okay, so there's my rant. Na'vi will make it--if YOU make it. I can help. We all can, and none of us is as smart as all of us, and there are a lot of smart people here. Let's keep building, and adding better ways of learning, AND THEN we go kick some corporate ass (or get them to publish "our" version of Na'vi material). Yes, yes, I know I know, we need Fromer to keep feeding us words, and we need licensing--but not for the "pitch." That will happen. (Hint: keep the pressure up), and another thing--going back to see the movie (yes, that means paying for it) helps as well. Start thinking informational projects and products. DO the footwork FOR the corporate types and they will love you all the way to the bank--but you will get your language.

Any takers?  

[Brainiac]

Well, for better or worse ma aysmukan sì aysmuké (hopefully that says brothers and sisters)

Yup, it does ^_^

I have been observing the pulse of the pagan community. What Star Wars was for computer nerds (er . . . like me) Avatar may become for pagans. Harry Potter, a much less realistic, but more "hopeful" film, created an insane fanbase that has changed the terminology of pop-culture pagans. I see Avatar as more of a LoTR phenomena, as it is more epic, sweeping in concept, and so woefully sad. Harry Potter is about kids growing up in magical Disneyland. Avatar is about the near destruction of a nature-centered world (sequel guess: living brain) by capitalist-scum corporate conquistadors. This is a tale of the free-market enterprise being unregulated. The layers of meaning in this tale are too deep for most of the public to fathom, much less WANT to care about. JC hit all the warning sirens. That is sure to pick up a few extra fans among environmentalists, pagans, and sci-fi romantics, but other than "a beautiful paradise," the concept is anathema to public discourse.

It might as well be the next Star Wars, because it's an epic fantasy in space. Oh, and don"t try calling Star Wars a Sci-Fi around me, because it's not. It's fairy-tale. (magical swords, old wizard, yadda yadda yadda

That leaves the hard-core base, and the people who eat this stuff up are the fairy-tale believing pagans. I know this. I teach metaphysics. I write books on the subject. IMHO the second movie will make or break the Avatar cycle. It will just have to be a really good story. No Jar Jars, no (expletive)ing midichlorians, no "cute little boys who grow up to be Darth Vader played by horrible actors." In the meantime, of course everyone loves the film and the site. The movie has been out two weeks and a day. Wait 6 months, when everyone is at the beach, or Iron Man 2 comes out. To keep the interest strong in Na'vi pre-sequel, there will have to be "easy guides" (home made) through video, print (PDF), and mp3. Sales of teh video game might help as well, but learning the language is a LOT harder and less seductive then beating "level 10" on xbox, or signing up for WoW and tossing "Mister T" mohawk grenades at people.

Like you said, that's what made the first series so good: 3 films, with (relatively) good writing, fantasy setting, and a fairy-tale feel to it.

Klingon had years, decades, of fan-boy support. Hell! I watched the old TV shows religiously growing up (for you youngins' "the old TV shows does NOT mean Next Gen or DS 9). I remember the original Space Seed ("Superior ability breeds superior ambition."      -- Spock referencing Khan Noonian Singh, stardate 3141.9). And Klingon has decades of conventions where the original (O.G.) cast showed up in costume. Avatar will probably have none of this.

But, we do have one thing that no Trekkie has ever had:

Women! (a date)

That's gotta hurt

Okay, that was a bit harsh. But it is funny.

We have female fans learning, eager to learn, Na'vi. Pagans want to use it in ritual (oh boy, here we go with the temples . . .) and while we will need, at some point a book on Na'vi language--simple guides officially published through "the proper channels," I happen to know a little about publishing, having already published 5 books, all of which (except one--dammit!) have sold very well, and continue to help pay my rent.

FOX wants to make m-o-n-e-y. They love the spin-off market. That is where the real money is anyway. A **smart** tribe of elders here would keep busy helping the children. ("whaaa!" <--that is me crying like a baby that i don't understand _____. You will probably hear it daily.) They will know the way forward is TO DO THE WORK FOR FOX. Do you really think some jackass in marketing can write a better book than YOU? How much ***ing brain power do we collectively have here, all bent towards helping people "spread the good word about Na'vi"? By the way, I think Rupert Murdoch BOUGHT Random House. hmm . . . books anyone?

Granted, tens of thousands of members at this site will be a good figure to toss out to the bean counters, but more than that. Over the next 6 months, even with limited resources (um . . . like "words") we can make HUGE progress. Just look at all of the complicated PDFs we have here already. If they can be shaped into "fun to read" entertaining and educational guides to "everyday Na'vi language" or "Na'vi words you can use in every day situations" (see? two book titles already!) such as "Hey baby, wanna sreu?" (expect to get slapped using that line), or "5 ways to call your boss a moron to his face."

I'd buy them ^_^

Wow! I sound like a Cosmo cover--er . . . not that I read--or even look at "chick" magazines.

Sure you don't 

Anyway, I see Na'vi having some distinct advantages over Klingon, but Klingon did not "make it" because of corporate support. I was built on the backs of hard-core fans who showed up at conventions, who emailed each other. They DID THE JOB FOR THE CORPORATE TYPES (who, um, actually got paid lots of money). They built a language and a society because they had a passion that is no stronger than yours. They had no (of very few) women--and where women go, men WILL follow--and you have a far more beautiful language. Elvish came out when there was no "Internet," to help support each other. You have the tools, the timing, the allies, and the resources. Among us are members of most professions, and more are coming. It is eminently possible to do this--but you have to believe. We are already inclusive, and most of all we have the support network established, and growing. By the time Av2 comes out, this, and other sites can be linked and ready to rock and roll. "In the pipe, five by five." I think you get what I am getting at. "It's not your job to die for you country! It's your job to make the other poor sunufabitch die for his country!"

Oopsie!   I motivated myself so much I slipped into Patton mode.

Okay, so there's my rant. Na'vi will make it--if YOU make it. I can help. we all can, and none of us is as smart as all of us, and there are a lot of smart people here. Let's keep building, and adding better ways of learning, AND THEN we go kick some corporate ass (or get them to publish "our" version of Na'vi material). Yes, yes, I know I know, we need Fromer to keep feeding us words, and we need licensing--but not for the "pitch." That will happen. (Hint: keep the pressure up), and another thing--going back to see the movie (yes, that means paying for it) helps as well. Start thinking informational projects and products. DO the footwork FOR the corporate types and they will love you all the way to the bank--but you will get your language.

Any takers?  

I'm in, and will show up at conventions :p

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Amen ma tsmukan!

But I still feel much more comfortable having a bit larger vocab from Frommer first. What we need to do is put the pressure on for a speedy publication of the first how to speak Na'Vi book. It needs to be a top priority! What the fans want is what the fans get!

[Txur’Itan]

But I still feel much more comfortable having a bit larger vocab from Frommer first.

I think with the bombardment of E-Mails, we will have to wait for an official announcement from him on what is next as far as his work on the Language.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Amen ma tsmukan!

But I still feel much more comfortable having a bit larger vocab from Frommer first. What we need to do is put the pressure on for a speedy publication of the first how to speak Na'Vi book. It needs to be a top priority! What the fans want is what the fans get!

Ngayä txe'lan txur lu, ma tsmukan.
(Your heart is strong brother)

Yes, more words are always the goal. But if we think before we plan, if we kame where others tse'a, we will be swift and mobile, like the ikran where they are sluggish, like vul ayngawng.

We have enough to converse and help each other. More words will certainly come--and even if, magically, some book is published with near light-speed, that only serves to broaden our base to build support for the masses we want to attract. I merely say that it is good that we keep thinking creatively, and do more than dream of someone else doing the harvesting for us, and waiting to be served the fruits.

In my field of expertise, we have limited knowledge that we must re-examine endlessly, searching for meanings and deeper understandings of known facts. 2+2=4, but 2 is double "one" philosophically. 4 is the square of 2. When we compare this to 3 (e.g. 3+3, 3x3, 3 squared, and even cubed) we look beyond the simple math of it all and find fractals. We find terms like exponential growth, and interesting patterns of how integers added together equal nine regularly. Na'vi is no different. This land is fertile soil for creative exploration of language. This site is home to foundational thought. No?

[Brainiac]

Amen ma tsmukan!

But I still feel much more comfortable having a bit larger vocab from Frommer first. What we need to do is put the pressure on for a speedy publication of the first how to speak Na'Vi book. It needs to be a top priority! What the fans want is what the fans get!

Ngayä txe'lan txur lu, ma tsmukan.
(Your heart is strong brother)

Yes, more words are always the goal. But if we think before we plan, if we kame where others tse'a, we will be swift and mobile, like the ikran where they are sluggish, like vul ayngawng.

We have enough to converse and help each other. More words will certainly come--and even if, magically, some book is published with near light-speed, that only serves to broaden our base to build support for the masses we want to attract. I merely say that it is good that we keep thinking creatively, and do more than dream of someone else doing the harvesting for us, and waiting to be served the fruits.

Srane, ma tsmukan. Oe fi'u omum. 

[bagget00]

I'm in. I say lets pick the pace. put our txim in gear and get that frommer book published.

Kiyavame

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Actually I'm ngayä tsmuke, heh.

I agree though, I get so excited whenever I see people being creative with the words we have, combining them every which way to make a new phrase. Even if at a later date these combinations will be replaced when new words are give it's good to to play around and become comfortably with what we have. What I think the fans should push for the most is a sister official site where Frommer can upload some new vocab and  actually finalize some of the grammar to hold us over for a more in depth book.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Actually I'm ngayä tsmuke, heh.

I agree though, I get so excited whenever I see people being creative with the words we have, combining them every which way to make a new phrase. Even if at a later date these combinations will be replaced when new words are give it's good to to play around and become comfortably with what we have. What I think the fans should push for the most is a sister official site where Frommer can upload some new vocab and  actually finalize some of the grammar to hold us over for a more in depth book.

Srane, srane!

But please let us also remember our greatest strength! Fromer is a linguist, AND the creator of this language. His brain is so neuro-synaptic (okay, I just made that up), so detail oriented on this subject that his discourse will be hardly intelligible to anyone in the public. Sure, he can conjugate, predicate, and elucidate, but can he draw Spiderman? Can he scribble out a comic book for children that makes the Na'vi popular with them? Can he write love stories for teenage girls like Stephanie Meyer does? (Twilight)

He will need translators--those who can take high concepts and phrase them in ways that common people can enjoy and want to know more of. He will need creative people, nimble with this language already, who can create applications (meaning dream up actual real life interactive uses) for his new words.

I see none other than ma aysmuktu. This is not arrogance. It is the breath of life this language needs. Our efforst now lay the foundation for future ayeveng to learn. Already I see a popular family game that incorporates trace elements of Na'vi in it. Not quite Trivial Pursuit, but more cerebral than Uno. Who can say, the future? But it is nice to be on the edge looking out into it.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Srane! This is where the project section really shines. People are already coming up with learning tools, I myself suggested hunting down a good artist and making an illustrated dictionary of some sort. Stories need to be written eventually, like you, ma tsumkan, already attempted. I think picture books are the perfect start for where the language is at, we have illustrations that can help get the point across and the language can be simple, but leaves plenty of room for creativity.

Though please, I'm sure everyone here is a million times better the Meyer *shudder*

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

Srane! This is where the project section really shines. People are already coming up with learning tools, I myself suggested hunting down a good artist and making an illustrated dictionary of some sort. Stories need to be written eventually, like you, ma tsumkan, already attempted. I think picture books are the perfect start for where the language is at, we have illustrations that can help get the point across and the language can be simple, but leaves plenty of room for creativity.

Gyahhh! I am such a skxawng!

The answer is right there. all the time! (I need a good Na'vi expletive) Pxtx! Pxtx! (well, it's almost like spitting :-)

Harry (expletive) Potter.

HP fanfiction, fan art, podcasts and all kinds of fan speculation fueled the massive hunger for more HP. It also served as a communication (more a broadcast than truly interactive) for members of the "I want to believe club." But mostly, it forced open the doors to ALLOW creative expression that did not "cut into corporate sales" but instead made HP a multi-trillion dollar empire.

The groundwork has already been laid. The (basic, general) legalities of it have been fleshed out as well. Unless FOX wants to "alienate" (I know, but it was fun to write) fans, they will welcome "supportive efforts" such as fanfic as you inferred in your post. Why didn't I see this before? We are not breaking new ground. We are merely enjoying a beautiful language, and any or all of us could help create inspirational and informational projects and products (like illustration books ad you mentioned, or short children's books--think Dr. Seuss, but with Na'vi). And why not "I can speak Na'vi all by myself" (Dr. Seuss was "I can read all by myself--or something like that), or "Successories" posters? Successories posters are those black framed photos of sunsets and golfcourses and stuff with motivational phrases. There are a million spoofs of them. Why not a Na'vi spoof? it is humor, so it should be able to be used on the internet (no intention to sell, just make a fun "Pro-na'vi philosophy" poster that looks like something you would see in an executive's office.

These are just ideas, but they would be fun to collaborate on and share with the members here. And as to podcasts; there was a time when I was listening to 3 of the biggest (fan) HP podcasts every week. It was unique and fun, and I was not alone. So, there are no limits to small or large fun ways of exploring this. All we need is some inspiration to get moving.

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

Podcast. Yes this is what we need and bad! They will probably read a larger audience and allow for us to actually hear the beautiful language!

Fanfiction is actually how I found this site so that is starting to do its work! I think we have a very strong fan base going and it's clearly growing. Every time I look at how many members we have its gone up!

We need to casts our nets wider, but before we do that we should have more then just blocks of texts to arrive to. More video and audio is huge. We should get prepared than start reaching out to everyone we can find.

[Brainiac]

Podcast. Yes this is what we need and bad! They will probably read a larger audience and allow for us to actually hear the beautiful language!

Fanfiction is actually how I found this site so that is starting to do its work! I think we have a very strong fan base going and it's clearly growing. Every time I look at how many members we have its gone up!

We need to casts our nets wider, but before we do that we should have more then just blocks of texts to arrive to. More video and audio is huge. We should get prepared than start reaching out to everyone we can find.

I'd like to do some podcasts 
But more along the lines of a conversation than an actual, yknow, monologue

[Tìng Eywatikìte'e]

That would be good, we should get the people with the best accents as well as those who are great with the grammar and get them talking. Though the first few episodes should basically be going through the pocket dictionary, get the basics out of the way then move on to conversations. I think that would catch a lot more peoples attentions than just a forum.

[Kaltxì Palulukan!]

I'd like to do some podcasts 
But more along the lines of a conversation than an actual, yknow, monologue

You should check out the leaky cauldron's podcast. They may still be doing it. It has never been much more than a stray mutt but it is hundreds of episodes old, and has enjoyed a rabid fan base (while there was still new HP material coming out, and even after). It is nothing but freeform conversation and speculation. The Na'vi podcasts may not be so disparate, but it would give you an idea of how low the bar is when emotions are high. I just wanted to add that.

I love the enthusiasm here. I was afraid I would sound like (mmm . . . need and example, how about) "Moses preaching to the ancient Egyptians." That would not have gone over very well. Anyway, I was not sure people would see how fun this could be, as limited resources only forces us to be more creative. Dr. Seuss (as just an example) built an empire on books that had far less vocabulary tan Na'vi already possesses.