Author Topic: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?  (Read 1380 times)

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Offline Karyu Amawey

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Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« on: December 22, 2009, 12:54:59 am »
I originally thought that the IPA would deter Na'Vi learners from butchering the language and pronouncing tx as tks or ng as nuhguh, which is why I used the IPA for most of the explanations.  However, I find myself wondering if a quick explanation would be better than using it for the whole document.  Feedback?
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Offline wisnij

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #1 on: December 22, 2009, 12:58:42 am »
I think it's good to have the IPA when showing the pronunciation of a word, like in a glossary or when first introducing the phonetic system, but when just writing it out as literal text the style used in Frommer's Language Log post is probably better.  He calls it the "official transcription", so any further grammars or lexicons he's able to publish later will probably be written in that fashion as well.
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Offline Skxawng

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2009, 12:59:27 am »
I had trouble at first with reading the ejected consonants, but after reading up a little, I feel like if you just had all the information consolidated in one place (as its being done in the beginner board) then you'd be fine.  Additionally, It'd be handy if there was an alphabet, with the IPA letter, followed by two or three english words containing. For example:

Navi - IPA - English example(s)
ì       - ɪ     - sit


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Offline Karyu Amawey

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2009, 01:03:57 am »
I think that's probably what i'll end up doing tomorrow, to make things easier for everyone!  Sorry everyone!
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Offline Seze

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2009, 01:05:47 am »
I think it's good to have the IPA when showing the pronunciation of a word, but when just writing it out as literal text the style used in Frommer's Language Log post is probably better.  He calls it the "official transcription", so any further grammars or lexicons he's able to publish later will probably be written in that fashion as well.

I agree.  Before our community came together, I found IPA to be very helpful in understanding the phonetics of the language, for instance the differences in i and ì.  I did quite a bit of flipping back and forth to the phonetics chart and then to IPA pronunciations, but to me it was easier to keep the written form separate and consult IPA on an as needed basis.  I think it would be a good idea to keep IPA around, like they do in dictionaries, but not use it for writing the language.  It would also be nice if we made our own sound samples of the way the language sounds instead of going from site to site looking for sound bites.

Offline Skxawng

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2009, 01:08:14 am »
I agree.  Before our community came together, I found IPA to be very helpful in understanding the phonetics of the language, for instance the differences in i and ì.  I did quite a bit of flipping back and forth to the phonetics chart and then to IPA pronunciations, but to me it was easier to keep the written form separate and consult IPA on an as needed basis.  I think it would be a good idea to keep IPA around, like they do in dictionaries, but not use it for writing the language.  It would also be nice if we made our own sound samples of the way the language sounds instead of going from site to site looking for sound bites.

Agree to all said here :)

Also I was thinking, if someone had a camera they could make a series of youtube videos, close up of their mouth so there'd be a visual aid as well. Perhaps one video for vowels, one for consonants, etc etc.


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Offline Tirealì'u

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2009, 01:17:57 am »
Actually, getting sound-bites of the different pronunciations would absolutely rock.

Offline Antony

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #7 on: December 22, 2009, 03:07:53 am »
I think that sound-bites would be absolutely brilliant! I am having trouble knowing how to pronounce a lot of the words in Na'vi.

Offline Skxawng

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #8 on: December 23, 2009, 01:06:36 am »
I think that sound-bites would be absolutely brilliant! I am having trouble knowing how to pronounce a lot of the words in Na'vi.

If I might pimp my wares once more ...



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Offline Taronyu

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #9 on: December 23, 2009, 11:17:22 am »
Skxawng, is that in General American accent?

I'd prefer the IPA usage, seeing as how the transcription used by Frommer can be confusing, especially for beginners. I remember spending years learning Elvish badly because I didn't get the pronunciation down right. But most people aren't used to the IPA, and it can be difficult for some computers to see, and programs. Accent can't be shown correctly in his transcription however, and I dread the day when Russian Na'vi try to talk to southern American speakers, or something like that.

Offline Brainiac

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2009, 11:20:46 am »
I love the 'idiot'-transcriptions  ;D
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Offline Velaar

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2009, 01:21:15 pm »
Here's another link regarding the IPA pronunciation: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:IPA_pronunciation_key

Offline Skxawng

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2009, 07:33:18 pm »
'tis


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Offline Ptxèrra

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #13 on: December 27, 2009, 02:47:59 pm »
i just got used to IPA
idiot part confirmed it, that i understand it.

funny part though
Oel ayngati kameie i was there

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Offline Na'viyä Tsamsiyu

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Re: Ditch the IPA and go all standard, or keep IPA?
« Reply #14 on: December 31, 2009, 05:20:54 pm »
Here's another link regarding the IPA pronunciation: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Wiktionary:IPA_pronunciation_key

Wow, that's an elaborate table. When Taronyu mentioned about an American accent, I kinda lost hope on IPA when i realized that (me having a slight accent as well), yes, even with the slightest accent it could change the whole pronunciation, but thanks to Velaar, this is now solved:D

Personally, i think IPA should stay because the more diverse we are, the more helpful we are, the more friendly we are, all counts toward new Na'Vi enthusiasts who want to come in and have a good learning experience in a very convienent manner and as easy as possible, and keeping IPA would embrace that statement.
« Last Edit: December 31, 2009, 05:22:34 pm by SR Raptor »
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