Author Topic: Official Na'vi Dictionary  (Read 117645 times)

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #180 on: July 12, 2011, 01:53:06 pm »
I KNEW IT!!

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Offline Puvomun

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #181 on: July 12, 2011, 02:05:26 pm »
This system has a very well defined sense of who it likes and doesn't like.

Oh, and you have to bring it cookies from time to time...

HRH!!!
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #182 on: July 12, 2011, 02:23:59 pm »
Quote
I got idea from the hell - has dictionary some way marked ditransitive (or how linguists call it) verbs or one must guess it "on fly" when trying to use them?
no, there is no current convention for ditransitives. (that is, if you refer to verbs which take BOTH a direct and inderect object.)
Seems I used incorrect term. What I'm thinking about are verbs which can be used both transitively and intrasitively.

Like: Oel yerikit taron. vs Oe taron.

what makes any transitive verb exempt from this?
Sorry, I don't understand your question. Anyway I probably found the correct term - ambitransitive verbs(?)

I mean what is keeping ALL transitives from being able to be used like that?
So according you EVERY vtr. CAN be used intransitively? It is too unbelievable
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #183 on: July 12, 2011, 02:26:06 pm »
Quote
I got idea from the hell - has dictionary some way marked ditransitive (or how linguists call it) verbs or one must guess it "on fly" when trying to use them?
no, there is no current convention for ditransitives. (that is, if you refer to verbs which take BOTH a direct and inderect object.)
Seems I used incorrect term. What I'm thinking about are verbs which can be used both transitively and intrasitively.

Like: Oel yerikit taron. vs Oe taron.

what makes any transitive verb exempt from this?
Sorry, I don't understand your question. Anyway I probably found the correct term - ambitransitive verbs(?)

I mean what is keeping ALL transitives from being able to be used like that?
So according you EVERY vtr. CAN be used intransitively? It is too unbelievable

It is a little something (IIRC) called the antipassive.

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #184 on: July 12, 2011, 02:35:10 pm »
Quote
Quote
I mean what is keeping ALL transitives from being able to be used like that?
So according you EVERY vtr. CAN be used intransitively? It is too unbelievable

why not? (also, I'm not God and I can be wrong. ;P)

It is a little something (IIRC) called the antipassive.



indeed.

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Offline Blue Elf

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #185 on: July 12, 2011, 05:10:53 pm »
Quote
Quote
I mean what is keeping ALL transitives from being able to be used like that?
So according you EVERY vtr. CAN be used intransitively? It is too unbelievable

why not? (also, I'm not God and I can be wrong. ;P)
because verbs without object can create incomplete sentence, which has no reason. Some examples:
Oe tsre'i (what did I throw, where, why?)
Po serar (but what?)
Ayoe 'ärìp (but what we move?)
Not all vtr's can be used as vin.
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #186 on: July 12, 2011, 05:11:27 pm »
Quote
Quote
I mean what is keeping ALL transitives from being able to be used like that?
So according you EVERY vtr. CAN be used intransitively? It is too unbelievable

why not? (also, I'm not God and I can be wrong. ;P)
because verbs without object can create incomplete sentence, which has no reason. Some examples:
Oe tsre'i (what did I throw, where, why?)
Po serar (but what?)
Ayoe 'ärìp (but what we move?)
Not all vtr's can be used as vin.


context? previous sentences in conversation?

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Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #187 on: July 12, 2011, 05:16:30 pm »
Or it could just be a general statement about something one does.
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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #188 on: July 12, 2011, 05:18:49 pm »
a noun and a verb form the most basic simple sentence. it does not have to be specific. of course with no previous context, a noun verb sentence with a transitive verb with the direct object left out will lead to the question of what the direct object IS.

or am I shamefully wrong about ALL this?

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Offline Tanri

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #189 on: July 13, 2011, 07:37:17 am »
I think that all of you three have a little truth.
Technically, it is possible to use every verb intransitively, but the question is - how the listener will understand them.

There are two possibilities:
1) the verb is a general statement of doing some activity, as 'Oma Tirea said.
2) the verb doesn't really make sense without an object, and the listener is required to get one from the context.

IMHO, the majority of transitive verbs falls to the category 1) because they make sense even without object. For example:
-Oel stolawm futa nga tamaron trram. Lu tìngay srak?
-Srane, oe tamaron.


But, there are surely a verbs, difficult to use without object at all. Maybe "kin, may’, munge etc.", but the specific usage of such a verb can clearly be influenced by native language or by way of thinking of every person individually - so it is very hard to say: "This is completely wrong!".

So, i think that we cannot make a list of transitive verbs, whose intransitive usage will be forbidden by rule - just because the suitability of specific verb usage cannot be expressed with binary variable yes/no, but in reality, it lies somewhere between. Only the person who speaks or write is the responsible one for choosing appropriate words - regarding the ability of listeners or readers to understand them cleanly.
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Offline Eywa'eveng-tìranyu

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #190 on: July 16, 2011, 12:36:16 pm »
"taronyut yom smarìl" is doubled.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #191 on: July 16, 2011, 01:45:56 pm »
"taronyut yom smarìl" is doubled.

crap. Somehow I KNEW that would happen...

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Offline Toruk Makto

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #192 on: July 16, 2011, 02:36:50 pm »
Fixed. New version 12.261

Lì’fyari leNa’vi ’Rrtamì, vay set ’almong a fra’u zera’u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #193 on: July 17, 2011, 10:27:03 pm »
!Idea: the verb for "love" is yawne lu, is intransitive unlike in English, and takes the dative just like si verbs.

Worth adding to the dictionary?

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #194 on: July 17, 2011, 10:33:01 pm »
!Idea: the verb for "love" is yawne lu, is intransitive unlike in English, and takes the dative just like si verbs.

Worth adding to the dictionary?



FASCINATING! It will perhaps stop people from saying "oe tìyawn nga" (not like they look at the part of speech anyway...)

I'm not sure how I feel about this in the dictionary. but this is a great new way to look at it! what do you all think?

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #195 on: July 17, 2011, 11:28:08 pm »
!Idea: the verb for "love" is yawne lu, is intransitive unlike in English, and takes the dative just like si verbs.

Worth adding to the dictionary?


FASCINATING! It will perhaps stop people from saying "oe tìyawn nga" (not like they look at the part of speech anyway...)
Really. I cringe when I see uses like that (and other ways of abusing Na'vi).

I'm not sure how I feel about this in the dictionary. but this is a great new way to look at it! what do you all think?
It was used by karyu Pawl on many occasions. I don't see a problem adding it to the dictionary, as the other .*yawne.* words are in there as well.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #196 on: July 17, 2011, 11:38:28 pm »
!Idea: the verb for "love" is yawne lu, is intransitive unlike in English, and takes the dative just like si verbs.

Worth adding to the dictionary?


FASCINATING! It will perhaps stop people from saying "oe tìyawn nga" (not like they look at the part of speech anyway...)
Really. I cringe when I see uses like that (and other ways of abusing Na'vi).

I'm not sure how I feel about this in the dictionary. but this is a great new way to look at it! what do you all think?
It was used by karyu Pawl on many occasions. I don't see a problem adding it to the dictionary, as the other .*yawne.* words are in there as well.

but yawne and lu are already in the dictionary. everyone knows you can use adjectives with lu. the question here is should

yawne lu

be treated like some kind of special structure like a si verb or something.

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Offline Puvomun

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #197 on: July 17, 2011, 11:57:44 pm »
!Idea: the verb for "love" is yawne lu, is intransitive unlike in English, and takes the dative just like si verbs.

Worth adding to the dictionary?


FASCINATING! It will perhaps stop people from saying "oe tìyawn nga" (not like they look at the part of speech anyway...)
Really. I cringe when I see uses like that (and other ways of abusing Na'vi).

I'm not sure how I feel about this in the dictionary. but this is a great new way to look at it! what do you all think?
It was used by karyu Pawl on many occasions. I don't see a problem adding it to the dictionary, as the other .*yawne.* words are in there as well.

but yawne and lu are already in the dictionary. everyone knows you can use adjectives with lu. the question here is should

yawne lu

be treated like some kind of special structure like a si verb or something.

I think the point is that not everyone knows because " "It will perhaps stop people from saying "oe tìyawn nga" "...
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #198 on: July 18, 2011, 01:13:20 am »
Phrase "nga yawne lu oer" is already in dictionary. IMHO no other action is needed. Maybe add this phrase directly to yawne definition too?
Oe lu skxawng skxakep. Slä oe nerume mi.
"Oe tasyätxaw ulte koren za'u oehu" (Limonádový Joe)


Offline Plumps

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #199 on: July 18, 2011, 02:40:51 am »
Phrase "nga yawne lu oer" is already in dictionary. IMHO no other action is needed. Maybe add this phrase directly to yawne definition too?

Agreed. If people would take the time to look through all the entries they would find it in apendix F.

I always found it strange … this notion of wanting to know what ‘I love you’ means in a language that one does not speak otherwise. Nobody asks for the sentence: ‘I’m sorry, I think yours is a fascinating language but unfortunately I can’t speak it.’ :P

 

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