Author Topic: Official Na'vi Dictionary  (Read 72438 times)

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2011, 03:16:50 pm »
I would make one other small change to the quoted list of dictionaries: Remove the quote tags so the text does not appear in miniature in a shaded block. I don't know what others do, but this is where I go when I need to refresh my dictionaries.

As far as the stress markings, Irayo fpì nerume I had not noticed these before. Making them a color might be useful on line, but it means they have to be printed out in color. Although I am pretty much using the dictionary online now, I (and I am sure many others) still print them out occasionally.

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2011, 03:25:23 pm »
used hr tags.

Probably won't make anything in color :\

Offline Nyx

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2011, 03:57:25 pm »
Hmm.. Am I the only one who sees two very different apostrophe's? The one for ejectives is fat and curly and the one for emphasis is just a straight line (excuse the bad phrasing, my brain is a little mushy now).

Oh and let's not make too many changes too soon. Give Markì and Tirea some time to get into the stuff first ;)

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2011, 04:00:35 pm »
Hmm.. Am I the only one who sees two very different apostrophe's? The one for ejectives is fat and curly and the one for emphasis is just a straight line (excuse the bad phrasing, my brain is a little mushy now).

Oh and let's not make too many changes too soon. Give Markì and Tirea some time to get into the stuff first ;)
indeed. I see two distinct markings as well. but still, I believe that Prrton's point was that they are similar enough to be confusing in certain words, a prime example being atxkxe.

hrh srane.

Offline Puvomun

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #24 on: May 25, 2011, 01:25:31 am »
I hope this is the right place to address this issue:
In a post somewhere, someone used the word 'pum' and that confused me to no end, as the explanation in the dictionary seemed entirely wrong with the context.

What was said: pum atxantsan! This in relation to a piece nìNa'vi I had written. I thought: excellent possession??  :-\

After some back and forth I found out that 'pum' is merely a replacement word for a noun, not a possession.

Dictionary:
Quote
pum: [pum] PF pn. possession, thing possessed (dummy pronoun for modified nouns or pronouns)

I would suggest a bit less confusing explanation for pum. In Dutch (liberally translating below) I changed this to:
Quote
{\it vervangwoord} (dummy voornaamwoord, vervangt eerder genoemd woord, b.v. Syulang! (Een bloem!) Pum alor lu! (Een mooie!) Pum slaat op wat eerder genoemd is.)

{\it replacement word} (dummy pronoun, replace previously mentioned noun, e.g.. Syulang! (A flower!) Pum alor lu! (A pretty one!) Pum points to 'one', i.e. the flower.)

For the start of this yayawr, please look at this topic.
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Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #25 on: May 25, 2011, 02:15:30 am »
I hope this is the right place to address this issue:
In a post somewhere, someone used the word 'pum' and that confused me to no end, as the explanation in the dictionary seemed entirely wrong with the context.

What was said: pum atxantsan! This in relation to a piece nìNa'vi I had written. I thought: excellent possession??  :-\

After some back and forth I found out that 'pum' is merely a replacement word for a noun, not a possession.

Dictionary:
Quote
pum: [pum] PF pn. possession, thing possessed (dummy pronoun for modified nouns or pronouns)

I would suggest a bit less confusing explanation for pum. In Dutch (liberally translating below) I changed this to:
Quote
{\it vervangwoord} (dummy voornaamwoord, vervangt eerder genoemd woord, b.v. Syulang! (Een bloem!) Pum alor lu! (Een mooie!) Pum slaat op wat eerder genoemd is.)

{\it replacement word} (dummy pronoun, replace previously mentioned noun, e.g.. Syulang! (A flower!) Pum alor lu! (A pretty one!) Pum points to 'one', i.e. the flower.)

For the start of this yayawr, please look at this topic.

oh wow I TOTALLY missed this post. what about:

pum: [pum] PF pn. one (place-holder pronoun referring to a previously mentioned noun or pronoun)

Offline Blue Elf

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #26 on: May 25, 2011, 05:19:14 am »
oh wow I TOTALLY missed this post. what about:

pum: [pum] PF pn. one (place-holder pronoun referring to a previously mentioned noun or pronoun)
Mllte oe, pum was real pain for me too

And this:
tsranten: PF vin. matter, be of import -> shouldn't it be: be of importance ?
I reported it in old thread, but probably too late...
« Last Edit: May 25, 2011, 05:21:55 am by Blue Elf »
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Offline Eywa'eveng-tìranyu

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #27 on: May 25, 2011, 06:31:01 am »
used hr tags.

Probably won't make anything in color :\

For color, you type e.g. \color{red}{text you want to be written in red}
that gives you text you want to be written in red

Offline Puvomun

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #28 on: May 25, 2011, 07:58:13 am »
oh wow I TOTALLY missed this post. what about:

pum: [pum] PF pn. one (place-holder pronoun referring to a previously mentioned noun or pronoun)
Mllte oe, pum was real pain for me too

And this:
tsranten: PF vin. matter, be of import -> shouldn't it be: be of importance ?
I reported it in old thread, but probably too late...

Re "pum": I like this. Will fix this in the Dutch version when I get home.

I'll have a look at tsranten then too, to see what that now is.

(Official company training... keeps you from what's important. ;))
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #29 on: May 25, 2011, 09:10:24 am »
oh wow I TOTALLY missed this post. what about:

pum: [pum] PF pn. one (place-holder pronoun referring to a previously mentioned noun or pronoun)
Mllte oe, pum was real pain for me too

And this:
tsranten: PF vin. matter, be of import -> shouldn't it be: be of importance ?
I reported it in old thread, but probably too late...

taken care of. will be in next release.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #30 on: May 25, 2011, 09:13:41 am »
used hr tags.

Probably won't make anything in color :\

For color, you type e.g. \color{red}{text you want to be written in red}
that gives you text you want to be written in red

right. I was sayin I probably won't make anything in color unless a staggering majority of users want that. I'm not sure of a decently quick way of making every last ' red..

Offline Plumps

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #31 on: May 25, 2011, 10:20:08 am »
Maybe it has something to do with the resolution but I have no problem distinguishing the ' from ’
These are the official IPA signs for these things – I thought, the idea behind the dict was to at least look like a real ‘official’ dictionary :P

I think Taronyu thought about underlining for a while but it was discarted because the formating was not right … plus in certain instances it is very hard to see the syllable bounderies.

I’d leave the format as is right now.

Edit: Another possibility would be to explain these signs in the introductory section ???

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #32 on: May 25, 2011, 10:28:48 am »
Maybe it has something to do with the resolution but I have no problem distinguishing the ' from ’
These are the official IPA signs for these things – I thought, the idea behind the dict was to at least look like a real ‘official’ dictionary :P

I think Taronyu thought about underlining for a while but it was discarted because the formating was not right … plus in certain instances it is very hard to see the syllable bounderies.

I’d leave the format as is right now.

Edit: Another possibility would be to explain these signs in the introductory section ???


Right. I was gonna keep things how ther currently are. It explains the infix and syllable boundary markings right? I might add a little note in that section about the stress marker.

Also, everyone, since I was usually not in the habit of constantly using the dictionary, was it that it was immediately regenerated as soon as a mistake mentioned here was fixed? or did there tend to be pending and "bulk" releases? Which do you prefer? I have edited the things I've seen mentioned here, but have not regenerated the PDF set yet.

Offline wm.annis

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #33 on: May 25, 2011, 11:28:36 am »
tsranten: PF vin. matter, be of import -> shouldn't it be: be of importance ?

"Be of import" is fine, if old-fashioned, English.  "Be important" is probably the easiest translation involving that root.
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Offline Prrton

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #34 on: May 25, 2011, 11:45:24 am »

BTW. I was never SUGGESTING that anything in the dictionary be marked in red. I was just showing that the stress marking is already there.

For the record. To the best of my knowledge, these are the proper symbols to use as far at IPA goes in Unicode:

STRESS (primary): (U+02C8) ˈ  ˌpa.lu.ˈlu.kan
STRESS (secondary: (U+02CC) ˌ  ˌpa.lu.ˈlu.kan

EJECTIVE (showing TXeTX): (U+02BC) tʼ


A different typeface can make a difference too. Here is the same text in TIMES vs. VERDANA (above)


STRESS (primary): (U+02C8) ˈ  ˌpa.lu.ˈlu.kan
STRESS (secondary: (U+02CC) ˌ  ˌpa.lu.ˈlu.kan

EJECTIVE (showing TXeTX): (U+02BC) tʼ

Offline Puvomun

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2011, 11:46:44 am »
Also, everyone, since I was usually not in the habit of constantly using the dictionary, was it that it was immediately regenerated as soon as a mistake mentioned here was fixed? or did there tend to be pending and "bulk" releases? Which do you prefer? I have edited the things I've seen mentioned here, but have not regenerated the PDF set yet.

I don't know what the rebuild schedule is for the PDF's but I'd say rebuilding them once a week should be fine. Once a day at best. But this is my view.

(Dutch dictionary updated with new definitions btw.)
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Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Toruk Makto

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #36 on: May 25, 2011, 01:56:40 pm »
Well if a major error is corrected, or new vocab is added, it should be generated immediately, IMO. But, for simple typos and minor cleanup edits on existing entries, then a minimum of twice a week. Kefyak?

ta Markì

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Na'vi Dictionary: http://eanaeltu.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Offline Puvomun

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #37 on: May 25, 2011, 02:07:45 pm »
Well if a major error is corrected, or new vocab is added, it should be generated immediately, IMO. But, for simple typos and minor cleanup edits on existing entries, then a minimum of twice a week. Kefyak?

Sounds good.

Suddenly wonder if the translators could get notifications if something letsranten is changed in the master dictionary, or when aylì'u amip arrive. I check the Dutch version about once a week/fortnight for that, when I think of it.
Not a big thing, but it would be convenient. A nice-to-have. (Perhaps it's just me. Not sure how quick others are with their updates.)
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #38 on: May 25, 2011, 02:20:35 pm »
Well if a major error is corrected, or new vocab is added, it should be generated immediately, IMO. But, for simple typos and minor cleanup edits on existing entries, then a minimum of twice a week. Kefyak?

Sounds good.

Suddenly wonder if the translators could get notifications if something letsranten is changed in the master dictionary, or when aylì'u amip arrive. I check the Dutch version about once a week/fortnight for that, when I think of it.
Not a big thing, but it would be convenient. A nice-to-have. (Perhaps it's just me. Not sure how quick others are with their updates.)

I do believe there is an RSS feed. it seems not to be working entirely correctly. I just made one here. http://tirea.skxawng.lu/updates.xml

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Re: The Dictionary Part II?
« Reply #39 on: May 25, 2011, 02:28:10 pm »
I do believe there is an RSS feed. it seems not to be working entirely correctly. I just made one here. http://tirea.skxawng.lu/updates.xml

I added it to my Google reader, which tells me there are no items. Is there some setting I need to punch or kick? I see the description in the source XML file.
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Ngopyu ayvurä.

 

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