Official Na'vi Dictionary

Started by Tirea Aean, May 23, 2011, 11:59:18 AM

Previous topic - Next topic

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Plumps

Quote from: Seze on June 16, 2017, 05:56:39 PM
'ASG',
  'CM',
  'CP',
  'G',
  'JC',
  'JC, PF',
  'JC,PF',
  'JC/PF',
  'LA',
  'LN',
  'LN, PF',
  'LN,PF',
  'Lance',
  'M',
  'PF',
  'PF, CdS',
  'PF, JC',
  'PF, LN',
  'PF, M',
  'PF, Prr',
  'PF, SW',
  'PF, ZS',
  'PF,CdS',
  'PF,JC',
  'PF,LN',
  'PND',
  'Prr',
  'RL',
  'RL, PF',
  'Skxawng',
  'ZS'

Honestly, with the opening of the blog at the latest, I didn't see the need for sources any longer. A lot of them can go, if you ask me. LN definitely, because I presume that these words went through either the LEP or some kind of e-mail notification. With the other members of the forum, I don't know how they feel about it. If they are okay with the source citing being dropped. Seeing how much effort we put into getting the anonymity of the LEP right, it seems kind of counter-intuitive to leave some words with the sources name (other than words that JC and the actors created) and the rest of them as marked PF. They are all part of the language. Sometimes it's fun to see when a word was created but personally, I don't care who created it as long as I can use it ;)

Just my 2¢

Tirea Aean

I think it was put in their for thoroughness. One would think source data would indicate authority, as sourcing usually does, but all of these words in main block are canon. In practice it does not mean anything who created the word if it's canon.  I think it's just a historical thing because back in the day people liked knowing where the word came from. idk.  I don't really care because the vast bulk of our words are going to be PF anyways. It just might look weird if in the sequels the actors create words again and we want to source them, but most other words have no source data anymore (such as if we say, "it's PF for every word unless specified")

At the very least, if we have source data, it should be consistent format across the board.  We shouldn't have differing duplicate entries in the source field.

Toruk Makto

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 17, 2017, 07:22:26 PM
Quote from: Seze on June 17, 2017, 01:06:11 PM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 17, 2017, 11:04:46 AM
I think this thread is for reporting visual errors/typos or missing new words on the final PDF product. 

I think that is actually what I'm reporting, as its not an error with the EE system, its a potential error with the data entered into said system.  Some entries seem to be missing a source, and the values that have been entered in for the source being cited are being done differently.  For the latter, I am asking if there is any consensus on the formatting for how we cite a source, and order of the citations if there are more than one.  Is PF/JC logically equivalent to JC/PF? or is there meaning that can be derived based on which comes first? 

Ah, ngaytxoa, I must have misread your post. :-[

Great question though.  You seem to have found many interesting things in our DB as a result of manual entry. Nice eye ma Seze!
Quote from: Seze on June 17, 2017, 02:05:37 PM
I was chatting with Tirea today, and we discovered a typo in the IPA for LosÄntsyelesì.  It uses textsyllabic{ts}, and Tirea said that that is illegal, and only textsyllabic{l} and textsyllabic{r} are valid in Na'vi.

Can confirm that the only syllabic consonants in Na'vi are ll (\textsyllabic{l}) and rr (\textsyllabic{r}), which are also known as our pseudovowels. :) I'm not sure where \textsyllabic{ts} came from. Maybe it was the wrong word typed out, where it was thought/meant to be the code responsible for rendering the tie bar instead of a syllabic marker.

It is a typo. I'm out on a gig until tomorrow and will make edits tomorrow. - M.

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Because this dictionary is canon for the language, preserving this data here I think, is important. It can be dropped in other applications.  That said,  I think this list could be pared down a bit with losing its authoratativeness. (Now there's a word for the LEP ;-))

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Toruk Makto

Quote from: Seze on June 16, 2017, 05:56:39 PM
I've been doing some work on creating a new dictionary database for the mobile apps using the raw EanaEltu data, and I've come across a few items that I thought would be worth sharing with the group, as they might be actual bugs in the dictionary data in EanaEltu.  According to the PDF files, when a source isn't available, LN is used.  The following entries are missing a source, and I was curious if this was intentional or if these just got missed.  The entries are:








idna'vitype
1918keyrelcw
2305fnetxumderives
2370uvan letokxcw
2547fpomronderive
2720Tsun pehem?word

I also noticed that the way the Source is listed varies.  I built a list of all the different Sources that are used, and it looks like we have some duplicates and/or typos in how they are entered.  For example: Is there a difference between JC/PF and PF/JC?  For the work I'm doing, it would be nice to trim these down a bit and standardize how they are formatted, like should there be a space after a comma or not?  I've included the list of all of the unique sources that I've found that are used in the dictionary below:

'ASG',
  'CM',
  'CP',
  'G',
  'JC',
  'JC, PF',
  'JC,PF',
  'JC/PF',
  'LA',
  'LN',
  'LN, PF',
  'LN,PF',
  'Lance',
  'M',
  'PF',
  'PF, CdS',
  'PF, JC',
  'PF, LN',
  'PF, M',
  'PF, Prr',
  'PF, SW',
  'PF, ZS',
  'PF,CdS',
  'PF,JC',
  'PF,LN',
  'PND',
  'Prr',
  'RL',
  'RL, PF',
  'Skxawng',
  'ZS'

"Lance" is on tìsung [addition, post script (P.S.)], which I cannot confirm source for. There is one post by Blue Elf describing the word, but I can't find it anywhere else. I also do not know who Lance is. Anyone have more info?  -M.

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Toruk Makto

Quote from: Plumps on June 18, 2017, 04:44:00 AM
Honestly, with the opening of the blog at the latest, I didn't see the need for sources any longer. A lot of them can go, if you ask me. LN definitely, because I presume that these words went through either the LEP or some kind of e-mail notification. With the other members of the forum, I don't know how they feel about it. If they are okay with the source citing being dropped. Seeing how much effort we put into getting the anonymity of the LEP right, it seems kind of counter-intuitive to leave some words with the sources name (other than words that JC and the actors created) and the rest of them as marked PF. They are all part of the language. Sometimes it's fun to see when a word was created but personally, I don't care who created it as long as I can use it ;)

Just my 2¢

LN is mostly on the pre/in/suffixes descriptions. It was originally to denote ambiguous sources, not as THE source.  As far as sources in general, I am inclined to leave them since some early legalized words came from various people that should remain recognized, but be differentiated from Paul.

Also speaking of sources, I have cleaned up the formatting. 

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Plumps

Quote from: Toruk Makto on June 19, 2017, 04:17:19 PM
"Lance" is on tìsung [addition, post script (P.S.)], which I cannot confirm source for. There is one post by Blue Elf describing the word, but I can't find it anywhere else. I also do not know who Lance is. Anyone have more info?  -M.

That would be our Lance R. Casey and tìsung was first introduced by him here. ;)

Toruk Makto

#2267
Roger that!

On a different note, eanaeltu has suddenly stopped accepting accented chars.  I cannot fix tìsung because it truncates to just t.  This bug has appeared on other translations as well. I can't make any dictionary edits on words with these characters at the moment.  I am attempting to contact Tuiq to see if he can find out what is wrong.  -Markì

EDIT: I think I found the problem. Seems to be working now.

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

eejmensenikbenhet

#2268
Yeah, I noticed that some time ago indeed... Nonetheless I found some more things:

I was just going through an old blog post and noticed a few words that weren't in the dictionary...
    tìng ontu (vin.) smell (derived from tìng give and ontu nose)
    tìng ftxì (vin.) taste (derived from tìng give and ftxì tongue)
    may' is in the dictionary, but it's description doesn't contain taste even though Pawl mentions it as the original meaning of the verb.

I don't think that these would just be forgotten, but on the other hand, are there reasons for these not to be in there?

Also, the derivational info of tìng tseng says that tseng is ground instead of place which actually makes more sense (at least from a non-English perspective, I know "give ground" is English idiom).

Toruk Makto

Jeez Louise.  I have NO idea how those got missed. GREAT catch, ma 'eylan!  New dictionary version is 13.42.

I am holding on the clan names and the rewrite of tìng tseng for a word from the karyu.

Moo.

-Markì

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Seze

I just reran my project against the latest changes and the data looks much better, but there are still a couple of duplicates that may have been missed.  Here is the updated list:

ASG
CM
CP
G
JC
JC, PF
LA
LN
LN, PF
LN,PF
M
PF
PF, CdS
PF, JC
PF, LN
PF, M
PF, Prr
PF, SW
PF, ZS
PF,JC
PND
Prr
RL
RL, PF
Skxawng
ZS


Duplicates Found:
LN, PF
LN,PF
PF, LN
PF, JC
PF,JC
JC, PF


Learn Na'vi Mobile App - Now Available

Toruk Makto

I think I got them all this time...  :)   -M.

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Seze

Quote from: Toruk Makto on June 22, 2017, 11:39:05 AM
I think I got them all this time...  :)   -M.

Yay! I have clean data now!

ASG
CM
CP
G
JC
JC, PF
LA
LN
M
PF
PF, CdS
PF, LN
PF, M
PF, Prr
PF, SW
PF, ZS
PND
Prr
RL
RL, PF
Skxawng
ZS


Learn Na'vi Mobile App - Now Available

Toruk Makto


Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Did you release a new version with these changes, or simply update the current one?

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Toruk Makto

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on June 26, 2017, 05:10:28 PM
Did you release a new version with these changes, or simply update the current one?

Damn. Forgot to increment the release number.  New version 13.421
Good catch!  Irayo!

-M.

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

eejmensenikbenhet

#2276
Oeru tìpawm ahì'i lu.

I must admit that this all might stem from the slight inconvenience of always thinking in Dutch tense terminology and therefore getting English tenses wrong at times, but in the infixes section of the dict, all perfective infixes are labeled PERF. while that is usually the glossing abbreviation for perfect tense with PFV. being the abbreviation for perfective aspect...

Another question pops up around IMPF. which seems like some sort of amalgamation of IMPERF. (imperfect tense) and IPFV.(imperfective aspect).
The same goes for SUBJ. from SUB. (subject) and SBJV. or SJV. (subjunctive mood).

While I'm completely fine with using our own interlinear glosses, IMHO if we don't explain them in the dict itself: either don't use them or use the conventional forms. Of course they're explained by the definition  of the infix right in front of it, but when changing to other languages (like Dutch) these definitions change, yet the glosses remain there.

Tirea Aean

Quote from: eejmensenikbenhet on June 26, 2017, 09:28:16 PM
Oeru tìpawm ahì'i lu.

I must admit that this all might stem from the slight inconvenience of always thinking in Dutch tense terminology and therefore getting English tenses wrong at times, but in the infixes section of the dict, all perfective infixes are labeled PERF. while that is usually the glossing abbreviation for perfect tense with PFV. being the abbreviation for perfective aspect...

Another question pops up around IMPF. which seems like some sort of amalgamation of IMPERF. (imperfect tense) and IPFV.(imperfective aspect).
The same goes for SUBJ. from SUB. (subject) and SBJV. or SJV. (subjunctive mood).

While I'm completely fine with using our own interlinear glosses, IMHO if we don't explain them in the dict itself: either don't use them or use the conventional forms. Of course they're explained by the definition  of the infix right in front of it, but when changing to other languages (like Dutch) these definitions change, yet the glosses remain there.

Good catch. Can confirm, and second the motion.  I think this stems from the Taronyu days. Although I'm not 100% sure who came up with these unconventional glosses we have listed in the dictionary.  At the very least, all glosses are expanded in the introductory pages of the dictionary. (they are not explained, but they abbreviations are attributed to their full terms there)

Plumps

New words ;D

mo'ara (n., mo.'A.ra) 'gathering place'; the Disney theme park

satu'li (n., sa.TU'.li) 'heritage'

tìkxuke (n., tì.KXU.ke) 'safety'

emkä (vtr., em.KÄ  inf. 2, 2) 'cross'

kxu si (vin.) 'harm'

tswìk (vtr.) 'suck'
          tswìk kxenerit (vin.) '(to) smoke (a cigarette)'

taksyokx (v., tak.SYOKX  inf. 1, 1) 'clap hands'

Tolätxaw nìprrte'! 'Welcome back!'

Toruk Makto

Dictionary has been updated to 13.5.  Seze: Please note I have added new source ident 'D' for Disney. 

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf