Official Na'vi Dictionary

Started by Tirea Aean, May 23, 2011, 11:59:18 AM

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Seze

Quote from: Toruk Makto on December 12, 2017, 03:26:12 PM
Quote from: Seze on December 12, 2017, 02:38:01 PM
I manually edited the latex file, here is an updated version that fixed the sort order:
NaviDictionary.fixed.pdf

IRAYO!  :D  Can we get that to write the production PDFs?

The perl scripts generate the .tex files then calls pdflatex to compile them to PDF files.  All I did was copy the .tex file that was generated, modified it by hand, then compiled a new PDF


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Tirea Aean

Quote from: Seze on December 12, 2017, 03:33:19 PM
Quote from: Toruk Makto on December 12, 2017, 03:26:12 PM
Quote from: Seze on December 12, 2017, 02:38:01 PM
I manually edited the latex file, here is an updated version that fixed the sort order:
NaviDictionary.fixed.pdf

IRAYO!  :D  Can we get that to write the production PDFs?

The perl scripts generate the .tex files then calls pdflatex to compile them to PDF files.  All I did was copy the .tex file that was generated, modified it by hand, then compiled a new PDF

Could there be a way to script that in production temporarily?

Seze

Quote from: Tirea Aean on December 12, 2017, 11:33:28 PM
Could there be a way to script that in production temporarily?

Not really.  I'm moving 2 blocks of text in the tex file via cutting and pasting.  With some crazy regex-fu maybe, but it would likely be more trouble than its worth vs just doing it manually if you know what you're doing. 


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Tirea Aean

Oh. I see. damn. I can't think of a better way either. o.o

Seze

I don't have permission to replace the original PDF on the server, if an admin would like to swap the original with the fixed version I created, everything is ready to go, just needs swapped out.


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Plumps

Quote from: Tirea Aean on December 12, 2017, 02:27:05 PMAlso, didn't AW AY EW EY also have their own sections at one point like KX PX TX TS NG?

No they never did. The first I have is from the end of December 2009, a few from 2012 and 2013.

Toruk Makto

Quote from: Seze on December 13, 2017, 10:03:08 AM
I don't have permission to replace the original PDF on the server, if an admin would like to swap the original with the fixed version I created, everything is ready to go, just needs swapped out.

I'll take care of it.  Thanks!

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Tìtstewan

Quote from: Tirea Aean on December 12, 2017, 02:27:05 PM
Interesting.

Also, didn't AW AY EW EY also have their own sections at one point like KX PX TX TS NG?
Perhaps, you have seen my PHP script's output that also does not sort AW AY EW and EY, because how to programm that? Plus, how to tell a script to sort actual diphthongs and non-diphthongs?

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Seze

Quote from: Tìtstewan on December 16, 2017, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on December 12, 2017, 02:27:05 PM
Interesting.

Also, didn't AW AY EW EY also have their own sections at one point like KX PX TX TS NG?
Perhaps, you have seen my PHP script's output that also does not sort AW AY EW and EY, because how to programm that? Plus, how to tell a script to sort actual diphthongs and non-diphthongs?

In the new system I've been working on, I have it setup so that you can specify what grapheme an entry should be sorted under, to support that exact use case


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Tirea Aean

Quote from: Seze on December 16, 2017, 08:08:24 PM
Quote from: Tìtstewan on December 16, 2017, 03:01:54 PM
Quote from: Tirea Aean on December 12, 2017, 02:27:05 PM
Interesting.

Also, didn't AW AY EW EY also have their own sections at one point like KX PX TX TS NG?
Perhaps, you have seen my PHP script's output that also does not sort AW AY EW and EY, because how to programm that? Plus, how to tell a script to sort actual diphthongs and non-diphthongs?

In the new system I've been working on, I have it setup so that you can specify what grapheme an entry should be sorted under, to support that exact use case

It indeed is probably difficult to tell it how to sort this. Everything will look like diphthong, but some of them won't be.

Basically,

Not every single time that you see AW AY EW EY as sequences of characters does it constitute a diphthong, because of the rule we have that splits diphthongs in half when followed by a vowel:

irayo => i.ra.yo (not i.ray.o)
As for at the beginnig of a word, entirely possible is this:

AW.{C}... which is the nice case to sort this word under the AW header.

But what about

A.W{V}... which is the case where it's just under A

From what I can tell, sorting this is as easy as seeing if what comes after the w or y is a vowel. If it's a vowel, the diphthong gets split so that the W or Y starts the next syllable, causing it to be filed under A or E. If it's a consonant, the diphthong is preserved causing it to stort in AW AY EW or EY.

But is this necessary... How do the mobile apps do it? I feel like I see these sections in the Android app.  (I bet before doing much investigation, the app simply does a "starts with" comparison or a "LIKE" query or something.)

Seze

Quote from: Tirea Aean on December 18, 2017, 06:57:45 PM
But is this necessary... How do the mobile apps do it? I feel like I see these sections in the Android app.  (I bet before doing much investigation, the app simply does a "starts with" comparison or a "LIKE" query or something.)

There is an extra column in the data that the mobile apps get that includes the section that an entry falls in.  The logic to split that data out is done before it hits the mobile apps themselves.  With the new system I've been working on, it has a similar feature, where the Grapheme for an entry is recorded.  This was originally to allow for custom headers, where (') would have the IPA symbol for it instead of the grapheme itself. 


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Tirea Aean

oh. that actually makes a lot of sense.

Seze

Nemrey is missing a space in the partOfSpeech field "adv.,intj." should be "adv., intj."  ID 1914 in EE, data in column "arg3".


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Toruk Makto

Quote from: Seze on December 22, 2017, 09:33:32 PM
Nemrey is missing a space in the partOfSpeech field "adv.,intj." should be "adv., intj."  ID 1914 in EE, data in column "arg3".

Fixed.

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

The dipthongs are considered letters (graphenes??) in Na'vi, just as the ejectives are. They are all represented by digraphs in English. I don't know what causes the ejectives to be digraphs, or even if they are true digraphs. The point I am trying to get at here is, can the ejectives, the dipthongs, and ng/ts be represented by single characters that would properly expand into digraphs (or not in some languages, possibly), and that could be made to sort possibly in a Na'vi style alphabetical sort? Such a mechanism would have use in other languages (High Valyrian, for one) that have multiple translaiterated forms of the same vowel or letter.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Plumps

New vocab from here

yo'kofya (n., YO'.ko.fya) 'cycle'

tì'iluke (adj., tì.'I.lu.ke) 'endless, never-ending'

txanso'hayu (n., txan.SO'.ha.yu) 'fan, enthusiast'
     = so'yu
     Is it save to include so'hayu here as well? It's a person who is enthusiastic about something. A txanso'hayu is just a super-enthusiastic person :P

'oktrr (n., 'OK.trr) 'day of commemoration'

zìsìtsaltrr (n., zì.sìt.SAL.trr) '(yearly) anniversary'
     zìtsaltrr (n., zìt.SAL.trr or zì.TSAL.trr) '(yearly) anniversary'

tsukx (vtr.) 'stab'

ripx (vtr.) 'pierce'

sävll (n., sä.VLL) 'sign, indication, signal'

tstxolì'ukìngvi (n., tstxo.LÌ.'u.kìng.vi) 'noun phrase'

Toruk Makto

#2376
Dictionary updated. New version is 13.62!

EDIT:
Ma Plumps:
So'hayu would be a normal affix, so not sure it needs an entry. Txanso'hayu is a specific term Paul came up with for 'fan', so it would seem to be productive and he mentions a specific colloquialism for it.  Not sure where 'noun phrase' came from?

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Plumps

Quote from: Toruk Makto on January 05, 2018, 02:32:30 PM
Dictionary updated. New version is 13.62!

EDIT:
Ma Plumps:
So'hayu would be a normal affix, so not sure it needs an entry. Txanso'hayu is a specific term Paul came up with for 'fan', so it would seem to be productive and he mentions a specific colloquialism for it. 

Understood and reasonable. ;)


Quote from: Toruk Makto on January 05, 2018, 02:32:30 PM
Not sure where 'noun phrase' came from?

That comes from the comment section

Toruk Makto

There it is!  I'll add it.  (Irayo!)

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Vawmataw

If you read the comments section there is something about flags. Maybe a noun-to-be. ;)
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