Author Topic: Official Na'vi Dictionary  (Read 95677 times)

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Offline Eywa'eveng-tìranyu

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #80 on: May 31, 2011, 11:51:16 am »
there was some discussion on if tsun can be used for permission to talk around the lack of the specific 1:1 equivalent word for "permission". I can't remember the outcome. still can't hurt to throw it in the LEP and see what discussion comes up there.

I would suggest that, too.

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #81 on: June 01, 2011, 12:52:21 am »

Kop: is there a changelog still being kept, aside from what's already in it?

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #82 on: June 01, 2011, 02:48:30 pm »
This ongoing modal discussion begs an interesting question: Can any verb be used modally, or only those considered to be at least partially modal verbs?

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #83 on: June 01, 2011, 02:51:35 pm »
This ongoing modal discussion begs an interesting question: Can any verb be used modally, or only those considered to be at least partially modal verbs?

you cant go around using just any verb modally. Therefore, I lean in favo(u)r of marking modals consistently.

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #84 on: June 01, 2011, 03:56:29 pm »
This ongoing modal discussion begs an interesting question: Can any verb be used modally, or only those considered to be at least partially modal verbs?

you cant go around using just any verb modally. Therefore, I lean in favo(u)r of marking modals consistently.

Not quite the answer I was expecting, but in a lot of ways, that's good. It does confirm the need for my request from the old dictionary thread, that modal verbs be so marked. I think I even suggested some ways of doing just that.

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #85 on: June 01, 2011, 03:59:44 pm »
'Oma Tirea just a few posts ago pointed out how some of it's done. Verbs which use modal syntax have the (with subjunctive) in it. I'm inclined to agree with the specifications which 'Oma Tirea has made.

So I say, how would you like modals marked? and then upon compiling a list of all modals and modalsyntax-using verbs, we will make the edits. I'm all for consistency and no confusion.

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #86 on: June 01, 2011, 04:13:11 pm »
'Oma Tirea just a few posts ago pointed out how some of it's done. Verbs which use modal syntax have the (with subjunctive) in it. I'm inclined to agree with the specifications which 'Oma Tirea has made.

So I say, how would you like modals marked? and then upon compiling a list of all modals and modalsyntax-using verbs, we will make the edits. I'm all for consistency and no confusion.

I have seen the 'with subjunctive' marking on many of the modals, but I am wondering if this isn't a bit confusing. (It was also not complete at the last time I really went through the dictionary, which was a couple of months back.) To me, it could mean that that a verb that follows needs to be subjunctive whether or not it is really being used modally. Perhaps it marks me as a linguistics noob because it is assumed by those more knowledgeable than I that 'with subjunctive' automatically means a verb is is modal. A weaker argument against this marking is is that 'with subjunctive' is long in entries that are intended to be somewhat terse. So, here is the ideas I had from the previous dictionary thread:

http://forum.learnnavi.org/intermediate/my-dictionary/msg452770/#msg452770

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #87 on: June 01, 2011, 04:19:47 pm »
sure. vim and vtrm seem reasonable.

\A detailed note/reference about this will be needed in the earlier section of the dictionary about markings to reflect that. (leaving a personal note lest I forget)\

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Offline `Eylan Ayfalulukanä

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #88 on: June 01, 2011, 08:06:55 pm »
Irayo nìtxan nang

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #89 on: June 01, 2011, 09:29:34 pm »
Okay so the new marking in the dictionary for modals is:

vtrm. Verb Transitive Modal

vim. Verb Intransitive Modal

vm. Verb Modal

EDIT: verbs marked are those declared modal according to Horen Lena'vi section 6.8.3.2, not including the "candidate modals"
« Last Edit: June 01, 2011, 09:39:17 pm by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Ean Hufwetulyu

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #90 on: June 01, 2011, 10:38:56 pm »
Irayo
For all your hard work.
Eywa Ngahu Smukan si Smuke.

Offline Puvomun

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #91 on: June 01, 2011, 11:57:28 pm »
Okay so the new marking in the dictionary for modals is:
vtrm. Verb Transitive Modal
vim. Verb Intransitive Modal
vm. Verb Modal
Good job. I see there are variables-entries for those as well, I'll get to work on that somewhere today. (Have to figure out how to describe this in a decent, understandable way in Dutch.)
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Puvomun

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #92 on: June 02, 2011, 12:27:14 am »
Can you help me with some 'visuals' here, please? Dutch makes things a bit obnoxious concerning abbreviations. When I do it 'right', they look like:

wwso. stative intransitive verb
ww. verb
wwnm. intransitive modal verb   
wwn. intransitive verb
wwm. modal verb
wwo. transitive verb
wwom. transitive modal verb

This is going to be entirely incomprehensible. I plan on indicating modal verbs with M instead of m, making it:

wwso. stative intransitive verb
ww. verb
wwnM. intransitive modal verb   
wwn. intransitive verb
wwM. modal verb
wwo. transitive verb
wwoM. transitive modal verb

Otherwise there is going to be too much confusion between n and m and the combinations.

What do you think?
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #93 on: June 02, 2011, 12:31:26 am »
that's fine by me. as long as you make note of that in your appendices and wherever necessary.

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Offline Puvomun

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #94 on: June 02, 2011, 12:42:16 am »
that's fine by me. as long as you make note of that in your appendices and wherever necessary.
Of course, your dictionariness. ;)
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Offline Sireayä mokri

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #95 on: June 11, 2011, 08:48:35 am »
Noticed that 'eko is still not marked for transitivity. It should be vtr.: Tsawla palulukanìl oeti ’ìlmeko a krr, Nawma Sa’nok lrrtok seiyi ulte oe emroley (from the last vocab post).
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Offline Toruk Makto

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #96 on: June 11, 2011, 08:59:39 am »
Good catch. Fixing...

Lì’fyari leNa’vi ’Rrtamì, vay set ’almong a fra’u zera’u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://eanaeltu.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Offline 'Oma Tirea

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #97 on: June 12, 2011, 12:17:46 am »
that's fine by me. as long as you make note of that in your appendices and wherever necessary.

Txantsan fwa nga tsakem soli.  Ngian...

It would be much appreciable to clean up the descriptions as well, alu, rid anything in parentheses for the modal verbs, the stuff that says something like can take subjunctive or with subjunctive, since now the modal implies that.

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Offline Toruk Makto

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #98 on: June 12, 2011, 04:50:29 pm »
Good suggestion. Modal housecleaning completed.  ;)

Lì’fyari leNa’vi ’Rrtamì, vay set ’almong a fra’u zera’u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://eanaeltu.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Offline Puvomun

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Re: The Dictionary Part II
« Reply #99 on: June 13, 2011, 12:23:35 am »
Good suggestion. Modal housecleaning completed.  ;)
Dutch modal house cleaned also.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

 

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