Official Na'vi Dictionary

Started by Tirea Aean, May 23, 2011, 11:59:18 AM

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Eywa'eveng-tìranyu

Quote from: Tirea Aean on May 31, 2011, 11:47:49 AM
there was some discussion on if tsun can be used for permission to talk around the lack of the specific 1:1 equivalent word for "permission". I can't remember the outcome. still can't hurt to throw it in the LEP and see what discussion comes up there.

I would suggest that, too.

'Oma Tirea


Kop: is there a changelog still being kept, aside from what's already in it?

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

This ongoing modal discussion begs an interesting question: Can any verb be used modally, or only those considered to be at least partially modal verbs?

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tirea Aean

Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on June 01, 2011, 02:48:30 PM
This ongoing modal discussion begs an interesting question: Can any verb be used modally, or only those considered to be at least partially modal verbs?

you cant go around using just any verb modally. Therefore, I lean in favo(u)r of marking modals consistently.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 01, 2011, 02:51:35 PM
Quote from: `Eylan Ayfalulukanä on June 01, 2011, 02:48:30 PM
This ongoing modal discussion begs an interesting question: Can any verb be used modally, or only those considered to be at least partially modal verbs?

you cant go around using just any verb modally. Therefore, I lean in favo(u)r of marking modals consistently.

Not quite the answer I was expecting, but in a lot of ways, that's good. It does confirm the need for my request from the old dictionary thread, that modal verbs be so marked. I think I even suggested some ways of doing just that.

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tirea Aean

'Oma Tirea just a few posts ago pointed out how some of it's done. Verbs which use modal syntax have the (with subjunctive) in it. I'm inclined to agree with the specifications which 'Oma Tirea has made.

So I say, how would you like modals marked? and then upon compiling a list of all modals and modalsyntax-using verbs, we will make the edits. I'm all for consistency and no confusion.

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 01, 2011, 03:59:44 PM
'Oma Tirea just a few posts ago pointed out how some of it's done. Verbs which use modal syntax have the (with subjunctive) in it. I'm inclined to agree with the specifications which 'Oma Tirea has made.

So I say, how would you like modals marked? and then upon compiling a list of all modals and modalsyntax-using verbs, we will make the edits. I'm all for consistency and no confusion.

I have seen the 'with subjunctive' marking on many of the modals, but I am wondering if this isn't a bit confusing. (It was also not complete at the last time I really went through the dictionary, which was a couple of months back.) To me, it could mean that that a verb that follows needs to be subjunctive whether or not it is really being used modally. Perhaps it marks me as a linguistics noob because it is assumed by those more knowledgeable than I that 'with subjunctive' automatically means a verb is is modal. A weaker argument against this marking is is that 'with subjunctive' is long in entries that are intended to be somewhat terse. So, here is the ideas I had from the previous dictionary thread:

http://forum.learnnavi.org/intermediate/my-dictionary/msg452770/#msg452770

Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tirea Aean

sure. vim and vtrm seem reasonable.

\A detailed note/reference about this will be needed in the earlier section of the dictionary about markings to reflect that. (leaving a personal note lest I forget)\

`Eylan Ayfalulukanä


Yawey ngahu!
pamrel si ro [email protected]

Tirea Aean

#89
Okay so the new marking in the dictionary for modals is:

vtrm. Verb Transitive Modal

vim. Verb Intransitive Modal

vm. Verb Modal

EDIT: verbs marked are those declared modal according to Horen Lena'vi section 6.8.3.2, not including the "candidate modals"

Ean Hufwetulyu

Irayo
For all your hard work.
Eywa Ngahu Smukan si Smuke.

Puvomun

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 01, 2011, 09:29:34 PM
Okay so the new marking in the dictionary for modals is:
vtrm. Verb Transitive Modal
vim. Verb Intransitive Modal
vm. Verb Modal
Good job. I see there are variables-entries for those as well, I'll get to work on that somewhere today. (Have to figure out how to describe this in a decent, understandable way in Dutch.)
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Puvomun

Can you help me with some 'visuals' here, please? Dutch makes things a bit obnoxious concerning abbreviations. When I do it 'right', they look like:

wwso. stative intransitive verb
ww. verb
wwnm. intransitive modal verb   
wwn. intransitive verb
wwm. modal verb
wwo. transitive verb
wwom. transitive modal verb

This is going to be entirely incomprehensible. I plan on indicating modal verbs with M instead of m, making it:

wwso. stative intransitive verb
ww. verb
wwnM. intransitive modal verb   
wwn. intransitive verb
wwM. modal verb
wwo. transitive verb
wwoM. transitive modal verb

Otherwise there is going to be too much confusion between n and m and the combinations.

What do you think?
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Tirea Aean

that's fine by me. as long as you make note of that in your appendices and wherever necessary.

Puvomun

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 02, 2011, 12:31:26 AM
that's fine by me. as long as you make note of that in your appendices and wherever necessary.
Of course, your dictionariness. ;)
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.

Sireayä mokri

Noticed that 'eko is still not marked for transitivity. It should be vtr.: Tsawla palulukanìl oeti 'ìlmeko a krr, Nawma Sa'nok lrrtok seiyi ulte oe emroley (from the last vocab post).
When the mirror speaks, the reflection lies.

Toruk Makto


Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

'Oma Tirea

Quote from: Tirea Aean on June 02, 2011, 12:31:26 AM
that's fine by me. as long as you make note of that in your appendices and wherever necessary.

Txantsan fwa nga tsakem soli.  Ngian...

It would be much appreciable to clean up the descriptions as well, alu, rid anything in parentheses for the modal verbs, the stuff that says something like can take subjunctive or with subjunctive, since now the modal implies that.

[img]http://swokaikran.skxawng.lu/sigbar/nwotd.php?p=2b[/img]

ÌTXTSTXRR!!

Srake serar le'Ìnglìsìa lì'fyayä aylì'ut?  Nari si älofoniru rutxe!!

Toruk Makto

Good suggestion. Modal housecleaning completed.  ;)

Lì'fyari leNa'vi 'Rrtamì, vay set 'almong a fra'u zera'u ta ngrrpongu
Na'vi Dictionary: http://files.learnnavi.org/dicts/NaviDictionary.pdf

Puvomun

Quote from: Markì on June 12, 2011, 04:50:29 PM
Good suggestion. Modal housecleaning completed.  ;)
Dutch modal house cleaned also.
Krr a lì'fya lam sraw, may' frivìp utralit.

Ngopyu ayvurä.