Author Topic: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)  (Read 1150 times)

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Offline Wilamina

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Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« on: February 21, 2017, 07:28:29 am »
Hi Na'vi speakers,

first of all, I really appreciate the hard work you're putting into learning a new language. I've studied a few myself, also small ones where it can be challenging to find fellow speakers.

I am a Master's student at the University of Amsterdam and I am researching the aesthetic effect of languages we don't understand. My case-study will be several constructed languages, mostly popular ones and I will conduct interview with participants to gain an understanding of how they listen to languages they don't understand and which words they would use to describe these languages. Eventually, it all comes down to an aesthetic dimension of languages.

Are one or two of you able to provide me with a short recording, 4 minutes, of Na'vi. Could be you reciting a small text (I think the one that is translated into most constructed languages is the Babel one) or/and attempt to speak freely. Would be nice to have one audio file of a text and one of free speech. Participants in my study will be asked to listen to the recording you provided and then discuss with me what the language sounds like to them.

Anyone interested? As I told you, I really appreciate your hard work and I am trying really hard to be able to pay you for this but life is tough in Academia (especially the humanities)... but I am honestly trying and will make sure you receive a little gift!  :)) We could also meet up and chat if you're based in the Netherlands or Germany (Cologne/Dusseldorf area).

Message me or send an e-mail at [email protected] if you have any further questions! Would also be interested in generally discussing my research topic with you!

Offline Aka`ula

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #1 on: February 21, 2017, 07:42:33 am »
Kaltxì! If you are wanting to hear people's opinion of how the language sounds, to those that have never heard it, maybe you also want to read about the creation of the language. James Cameron wanted it to have a certain sound, and the language to be unlike any other in big similarity. Paul Frommer gave James 3 choices for a kind of language iirc.

Offline Wilamina

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #2 on: February 21, 2017, 08:22:44 am »
Kaltxi!
interesting, thanks! any specific books/articles you could recommend?

Na'vi phonetics are of course somehow based on natural languages, after all humans have to be able to produce them.. however, the combination is unique so would be interesting to see what languages speakers of different languages associate na'vi with when listening to it. what is the first language that comes to mind?  :)

Offline Eana Unil

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #3 on: February 21, 2017, 10:58:32 am »
Unfortunately I don't live in NRW anymore, but here are some members who do, also in Germany/the Netherlands in general.
There are also some older and newer videos on YouTube, for example: https://forum.learnnavi.org/podcasts-radio/short-yt-video/msg649860/
We have currently two weekly voicechat groups where we learn together and profit from the knowledge of those who know more than many of us. I'm sure you're welcome to join and listen/chat, next meeting (German study group) is tomorrow evening! :)

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #4 on: February 21, 2017, 11:31:41 am »
Na'viteri is one of our main source for Na'vi.
In this topic, you can download an offline copy that contain all audio files created by Paul Prommer and some members (like Tirea Aean).
One of interesting audio file for you maybe could be Tìng mikyun! Listen!. Of course, there are more audio materials on Na'viteri, but not limited to that place. Here on this forum are various members who have created audio materials, too.

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #5 on: February 21, 2017, 11:32:31 am »
Hi Na'vi speakers,

Kaltxì :)

Quote
first of all, I really appreciate the hard work you're putting into learning a new language. I've studied a few myself, also small ones where it can be challenging to find fellow speakers.

It's been very fun for me. Finding fellow speakers of Na'vi is easiest online. We are spread pretty far. Tho sometimes many of us attend meetups.

Quote
I am a Master's student at the University of Amsterdam and I am researching the aesthetic effect of languages we don't understand. My case-study will be several constructed languages, mostly popular ones and I will conduct interview with participants to gain an understanding of how they listen to languages they don't understand and which words they would use to describe these languages. Eventually, it all comes down to an aesthetic dimension of languages.

Interesting! :D Would you like to publish your results of this on the forums when you're done? Researchers have come here in the past and have done this. :) It's really cool to see research done on the language or the language community.

Quote
Are one or two of you able to provide me with a short recording, 4 minutes, of Na'vi. Could be you reciting a small text (I think the one that is translated into most constructed languages is the Babel one) or/and attempt to speak freely. Would be nice to have one audio file of a text and one of free speech. Participants in my study will be asked to listen to the recording you provided and then discuss with me what the language sounds like to them.

Anyone interested? As I told you, I really appreciate your hard work and I am trying really hard to be able to pay you for this but life is tough in Academia (especially the humanities)... but I am honestly trying and will make sure you receive a little gift!  :)) We could also meet up and chat if you're based in the Netherlands or Germany (Cologne/Dusseldorf area).

4 minutes may be the longest single audio sample ever attempted. Though I can say that well over 4 minutes can be compiled from individual recordings.

I will think about what text I could possibly read that could take 4 minutes to read. I'm thinking maybe something in our Na'vi literature board, probably this right here: https://forum.learnnavi.org/pamrel-ninavi-niaw/vur-teri-tsamsiyu-alu-perseusi/


Kaltxì! If you are wanting to hear people's opinion of how the language sounds, to those that have never heard it, maybe you also want to read about the creation of the language. James Cameron wanted it to have a certain sound, and the language to be unlike any other in big similarity. Paul Frommer gave James 3 choices for a kind of language iirc.

Kaltxi!
interesting, thanks! any specific books/articles you could recommend?

Concerning the creation of the language, Frommer has attended many interviews in 2010 and we have learned much from the audio recordings and text records of these interviews. Many of such exist on YouTube and random news blog sites that can be found on Google by searching "Paul Frommer na'vi avatar"

One of the most informative concerning the creation of the language is this bit of an interview here: http://usoproject.blogspot.com/2009/11/interview-with-paul-frommer-alien.html

Na'vi phonetics are of course somehow based on natural languages, after all humans have to be able to produce them.. however, the combination is unique so would be interesting to see what languages speakers of different languages associate na'vi with when listening to it. what is the first language that comes to mind?  :)


This is a great question that I remember being talked about in an interview.  Here is a quote I found:

“The sound system has to be all nailed down first, so that there is consistency in the language,” he explained. Early on he provided Cameron with three “sound palettes” for Na’vi. “Cameron passed on the first two, but liked the third very much,” he said.

Na’vi is composed of 20 consonants, seven vowels and four diphthongs. If Na’vi sounds to the listener as if it was derived from no particular language family, then Frommer is pleased. His goal was for this language to sound utterly new. He admits that there are Persian influences in the grammar from the year he spent teaching in Iran. There may also be some words reminiscent of Bahasa Malaysia from a year in Malaysia as a Peace Corps volunteer.

 “When you create a language, you experience the joy of rolling sounds around in your mouth, hearing unusual sounds, playing with the sounds and structural properties of language — it’s a process that took about six months for the basics,” he said. His linguistic passion and enthusiasm is undeniable as he describes the nuts and bolts of developing Na’vi.

Cameron developed 30 of the first words of the language, including the word Na’vi. Most of the words he created were names of characters and places. According to Frommer, Camer-on had just returned from New Zealand, which may be a reason there are several words that may sound Polynesian in origin.

More:

Its creator says some of Cameron’s original words had “a vaguely Polynesian feel”. Others have suggested that it sounds like German or Japanese.

“It certainly borrows various grammatical structures, sounds, that exist in other languages – but what I hope is that the combination in this language is unique,” says Professor Frommer.

I hope this has been helpful. I'll see what I can do about that Recording. :D
« Last Edit: February 21, 2017, 11:39:23 am by Tirea Aean »

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Offline Wilamina

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #6 on: February 21, 2017, 01:20:30 pm »
Kaltxì!  :)

thanks a lot for your helpful comments! I will of course let you guys know about the results of my research. :)

Thanks for the file "Txon Eywa’evengä". It's only 1 minute but I think definitely something I can work with. To my ears, this recording sounds pretty foreign. What I mean by that is that I can't tell immediately detect where the speaker is from (the r might hint on an English native speaker but that could just be 'cause that's what I expect). Do you agree? Or can any of you hear an obvious accent in his way of speaking na'vi?
What I found fascinating as well, is that I hear the "ejectives" as click-sound, as they are found in South African languages, but these are indeed different ways of producing sounds.

If anyone wants to provide a longer recording, that would still be helpful!

I will listen and read through the videos and texts you guys sent me now!  :)

Offline Tìtstewan

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #7 on: February 21, 2017, 01:32:30 pm »
Tìng Mikyun fte Tslivam: Listening Comprehension #1 (File is in the content folder of the Na'viteri-HTML: Listening-Comp-1-2010-7-24.mp3)
is 2 minutes long :)


EDIT: It's only for me or all the audio stuff at Na'viteri disapeared? ???

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Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #8 on: February 21, 2017, 03:12:02 pm »
Kaltxì!  :)

thanks a lot for your helpful comments! I will of course let you guys know about the results of my research. :)

Txantsan!

Quote
Thanks for the file "Txon Eywa’evengä". It's only 1 minute but I think definitely something I can work with. To my ears, this recording sounds pretty foreign. What I mean by that is that I can't tell immediately detect where the speaker is from (the r might hint on an English native speaker but that could just be 'cause that's what I expect). Do you agree? Or can any of you hear an obvious accent in his way of speaking na'vi?

Yeah, my recording of Txon Eywa'evengä is full of traces of my en_US accent. All of my older recordings are like this. :-[

I can generally pick up on accents of anyone attempting to speak Na'vi. Few and far between (if there are any at all) are people who speak Na'vi purely according to exact official IPA assignments to each phoneme.

Quote
What I found fascinating as well, is that I hear the "ejectives" as click-sound, as they are found in South African languages, but these are indeed different ways of producing sounds.

They are supposed to be outward ejection of pressurized mouth-air. My mic was not great at all in that rec! :o

Quote
If anyone wants to provide a longer recording, that would still be helpful!

I will listen and read through the videos and texts you guys sent me now!  :)

Tìng Mikyun fte Tslivam: Listening Comprehension #1 (File is in the content folder of the Na'viteri-HTML: Listening-Comp-1-2010-7-24.mp3)
is 2 minutes long :)

EDIT: It's only for me or all the audio stuff at Na'viteri disapeared? ???

It's all still there for me. Either way, glad you backed it all up! hrh

http://naviteri.org/2010/07/ting-mikyun-fte-tslivam-listening-comprehension-1-3/ works for me. There is still that tiny flashplayer play button. Direct link is still at:
http://naviteri.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/Listening-Comp-1-2010-7-24.mp3

There is also this:

http://naviteri.org/2015/09/tskxekengtsyip-a-mikyunfpi-a-little-listening-exercise-2/

Also, see this most historic content:

http://masempul.org/upxare-niinglisi/
  -> FLASH: http://masempul.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/pam3.swf

and

http://masempul.org/2010/04/trr-%E2%80%99rrtaya-2/
  -> MP3: http://masempul.org/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/Upxare-fpi-Srr-Rrtaya.mp3

Both decently long messages.

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Offline Plumps

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #9 on: February 21, 2017, 04:31:59 pm »
Kaltxì – hello :)

I am a Master's student at the University of Amsterdam and I am researching the aesthetic effect of languages we don't understand. My case-study will be several constructed languages, mostly popular ones and I will conduct interview with participants to gain an understanding of how they listen to languages they don't understand and which words they would use to describe these languages. Eventually, it all comes down to an aesthetic dimension of languages.

Interesting. Basically what James Cameron told Frommer that Na’vi should sound nice. Very subjective of course. What sounds harsh for one speaker might sound beautiful or intriguing to the next.

I’m quite interested in your results :)


Are one or two of you able to provide me with a short recording, 4 minutes, of Na'vi. Could be you reciting a small text (I think the one that is translated into most constructed languages is the Babel one) or/and attempt to speak freely. Would be nice to have one audio file of a text and one of free speech. Participants in my study will be asked to listen to the recording you provided and then discuss with me what the language sounds like to them.

Apart from the files and links already given, it’s quite hard to find recordings of people speaking freely. First of all it requires a certain level of fluency that I think a lot of speakers feel they don’t have yet. I tend to disagree – fluency or free speech is not shown by flawless use of grammar or a 2-min monologue without any uhm’s or self-correction. For me it’s the efford to convey what you mean in another language and your chat partner to understand you. And I know a lot of people have this stage of ‘fluency’ (for lack of a better word).

For some reason a lot of people are hesitant to just try and speak :)

If we go for a real life situation I am reminded of a recording of Tirea and Prrton from the very beginning. I don’t know if Tirea still has it somewhere ;)


Anyone interested? As I told you, I really appreciate your hard work and I am trying really hard to be able to pay you for this but life is tough in Academia (especially the humanities)... but I am honestly trying and will make sure you receive a little gift!  :)) We could also meet up and chat if you're based in the Netherlands or Germany (Cologne/Dusseldorf area).

Unfortunately I’m also not in that area.
But maybe Wllìm would be ready to meet with you. He is from the Netherlands (but I don’t know where exactly) – I had a few longer talks with him entirely in Na’vi :)

Offline Aka`ula

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2017, 05:18:14 pm »
I found fascinating as well, is that I hear the "ejectives" as click-sound, as they are found in South African languages, but these are indeed different ways of producing sounds.

Yes I believe of the forms Paul offered to James, the choice based on ''ejectives'' is what James chose. Tirea's link has good information for the details  :), sorry I couldn't respond to my initial post sooner, I have classes to catch sometimes too  ;)

Offline Tirea Aean

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #11 on: February 21, 2017, 05:43:35 pm »

Apart from the files and links already given, it’s quite hard to find recordings of people speaking freely. First of all it requires a certain level of fluency that I think a lot of speakers feel they don’t have yet. I tend to disagree – fluency or free speech is not shown by flawless use of grammar or a 2-min monologue without any uhm’s or self-correction. For me it’s the efford to convey what you mean in another language and your chat partner to understand you. And I know a lot of people have this stage of ‘fluency’ (for lack of a better word).

For some reason a lot of people are hesitant to just try and speak :)

I agree with this. We have such audio in the Audio chat this /audio board.  Uhm's and self-correction, but it's a wonderful display of our communication efforts using the language in a decently natural conversation.  We indeed need more of this.  But the preferred means of comms has been in text format whether it be on forums on social media or kinds of messaging apps. People speak, but it's not as common.

Quote
If we go for a real life situation I am reminded of a recording of Tirea and Prrton from the very beginning. I don’t know if Tirea still has it somewhere ;)

I'm actually having a hard time finding this. I know what you're talking about, but it either isn't even on the server anymore, or it is but is hiding very well.

Though beware, as I said, it's rough around the edges and is one of my earliest works. I sound quite American, and again, unfortunately, my mic was still very poor. If I can ever find it.

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Offline Wilamina

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2017, 06:14:56 am »
Ah, Tirea Aean I didn't catch that you were the one who did the recording :)
I think it sounds great and as I said I can't detect a strong accent actually! Not that an American accent is a bad thing, or any accent for that matter, but a super strong one would influence the results of my study of course. Obviously, learners of Na'vi will have an accent. Have any of you been listening to Esperanto speakers, even native speakers, before? They will always have a strong regional accent in their version of Esperanto. The Na'vi recordings I've been listening to up until now are less obviously influenced by the native languages of the speakers as Esperanto is, because it isn't free speech and learners are perhaps more careful in pronouncing everything.

Anyways, Esperanto won't be part of my research, I am interested in comparing the perception of Na'vi among listeners to the way they react to other constructed languages, but I will focus on Hollywood Languages here, hope you guys are ok with this term, simply means popular constructed languages that are based on an artistic context. Out of curiosity: Anyone here who speaks another constructed language? :)

 I believe that it is better to focus on recordings reading pre-written texts now, as opposed to speaking freely and I will of course find recordings in other constructed languages that have a similar rhythm and structure as the Na'vi ones to make it comparable. And then I'll try and find out what people's initial thoughts on that languages are!

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #13 on: February 22, 2017, 06:28:22 am »


Ah, Tirea Aean I didn't catch that you were the one who did the recording :)
I think it sounds great and as I said I can't detect a strong accent actually! Not that an American accent is a bad thing, or any accent for that matter, but a super strong one would influence the results of my study of course. Obviously, learners of Na'vi will have an accent. Have any of you been listening to Esperanto speakers, even native speakers, before? They will always have a strong regional accent in their version of Esperanto. The Na'vi recordings I've been listening to up until now are less obviously influenced by the native languages of the speakers as Esperanto is, because it isn't free speech and learners are perhaps more careful in pronouncing everything.

Yeah to me I can hear my accent through it especially the vowels because I know well how the official standard is supposed to sound. It's interesting to hear our European smuk talk. I can hear flavors of their natural language in their speech too. It's subtly noticeable but not overpowering or heavy. Check out this thread (it was linked above as well, I think) https://forum.learnnavi.org/audio/pivangkxo-ninavi-fa-mokri-ko!-navi-audio-chat-thread/

Quote
Anyways, Esperanto won't be part of my research, I am interested in comparing the perception of Na'vi among listeners to the way they react to other constructed languages, but I will focus on Hollywood Languages here, hope you guys are ok with this term, simply means popular constructed languages that are based on an artistic context. Out of curiosity: Anyone here who speaks another constructed language? :)

I've looked at Esperanto, Toki Pona a lot and some of lojban. I didn't stick with any of it so I'm not really good. My Na'vi remains my most polished second language.

Quote
I believe that it is better to focus on recordings reading pre-written texts now, as opposed to speaking freely and I will of course find recordings in other constructed languages that have a similar rhythm and structure as the Na'vi ones to make it comparable. And then I'll try and find out what people's initial thoughts on that languages are!

Interesting. Actually, you would be quite hard pressed even at this point to find Any recording of Na'vi that was not read from a prepared script or mostly scripted. The recording that Plumps mentioned earlier of myself and Prrton was the only and longest unscripted recording of Na'vi. But it has been lost..

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Offline Wllìm

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #14 on: February 22, 2017, 11:13:01 am »
Hallo Wilamina,

Hé, nog een Nederlander hier! :D Welkom!

I have two spoken messages on my blog (http://wimiso.nl/x-navi/pilok/) that are semi-scripted (text written out beforehand, but making some changes while speaking to let it flow better). You can hear my Dutch accent pretty well though, so I'm not sure how useful it would be for your research...

As for meet-ups: I'm from Limburg, so maybe we can arrange something... :) However, my work schedule is very busy right now, so it might be difficult to work out a suitable time in the near future...
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Offline Wilamina

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #15 on: February 22, 2017, 12:57:36 pm »
Kaltxì!

nee ik ben duits maar ik woon in nederland  ;D ;D


Let's see if we manage to meet up, maybe later this year at some point. :)


What do you guys think Na'vi sounds like? Which languages does it remind you off? I am sure this has already discussed somewhere in this community right?


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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #16 on: February 22, 2017, 01:26:56 pm »
Quote
If we go for a real life situation I am reminded of a recording of Tirea and Prrton from the very beginning. I don’t know if Tirea still has it somewhere ;)

I'm actually having a hard time finding this. I know what you're talking about, but it either isn't even on the server anymore, or it is but is hiding very well.

If you have difficulties finding it, I still got it :)

I have also a few recordings on my blog under the label tìng mikyun. There are a few songs among it but also a few news items (fmawn) and just random talk about books, life style etc. Use whatever you need :)

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #17 on: February 22, 2017, 02:00:21 pm »
Quote
If we go for a real life situation I am reminded of a recording of Tirea and Prrton from the very beginning. I don’t know if Tirea still has it somewhere ;)

I'm actually having a hard time finding this. I know what you're talking about, but it either isn't even on the server anymore, or it is but is hiding very well.

Though beware, as I said, it's rough around the edges and is one of my earliest works. I sound quite American, and again, unfortunately, my mic was still very poor. If I can ever find it.
Do you mean talk between Prrton and Tirea Aean as brodcasted on Tirea Radio? I have it recorded, although not from the beginning, I'm afraid. If you have some webspace, I can upload it (~44 MB), give me link and credentials.
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Offline Aka`ula

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #18 on: February 22, 2017, 04:41:01 pm »
Kaltxì!

nee ik ben duits maar ik woon in nederland  ;D ;D


Let's see if we manage to meet up, maybe later this year at some point. :)


What do you guys think Na'vi sounds like? Which languages does it remind you off? I am sure this has already discussed somewhere in this community right?

Because of word order, it reminded me of Latin that I was trying to learn right before Na'vi. Word order not as important many times as the endings on words that give them the meaning in the sentence.

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Re: Looking for recordings in Na'vi :)
« Reply #19 on: February 22, 2017, 05:11:37 pm »
What do you guys think Na'vi sounds like? Which languages does it remind you off? I am sure this has already discussed somewhere in this community right?

I’m not sure about the sound. I don’t think we can detach from where it comes from. ;)

People I said a few things in Na’vi to said it sounded like Portoguese. Another one didn’t compare it to any other language and just said it sounded beautiful :)

 

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